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Daily Log for #alfresco

2017-09-11 07:44:23 GMT <DarkStar1> Morning everyone

2017-09-11 07:55:15 GMT <twen> morning DarkStar1

2017-09-11 08:03:55 GMT <yreg> Morning everyone

2017-09-11 08:20:12 GMT <DarkStar1> o/ yreg. twen Long time no hear. Ça va?

2017-09-11 08:20:50 GMT <yreg> Bien bien !

2017-09-11 08:21:16 GMT <yreg> I just came back from holiday :)

2017-09-11 08:21:30 GMT <twen> DarkStar1 Ca va bien mon cher DarkStar1 :)

2017-09-11 09:32:35 GMT *** angelborroy_ is now known as angelborroy

2017-09-11 10:34:08 GMT *** angelborroy_ is now known as angelborroy

2017-09-11 10:52:30 GMT *** sujaypillai_ is now known as sujaypillai

2017-09-11 14:06:17 GMT <yreg> Does anyone know why does OOTB Alfresco not support faceting on document/folder types ?

2017-09-11 14:10:15 GMT <angelborroy> yreg can you explain further?

2017-09-11 14:19:34 GMT <yreg> in the facet list I need to have faceting on document/folder types

2017-09-11 14:21:23 GMT <angelborroy> it is not a property

2017-09-11 14:21:29 GMT <angelborroy> you can only facet by metadata

2017-09-11 14:21:46 GMT <angelborroy> which is the “thing” that is indexed by SOLR

2017-09-11 14:24:30 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, is Site a property ? no! Can you facet on sites ? Yes !

2017-09-11 14:24:40 GMT <angelborroy> hehe

2017-09-11 14:24:43 GMT <angelborroy> touché

2017-09-11 14:24:46 GMT <yreg> Solr support faceting on Types I just implemented that

2017-09-11 14:25:20 GMT <angelborroy> but in fact they are faceting by site name

2017-09-11 14:25:26 GMT <yreg> but noticed that Alfresco could have done it them selves by adding few lines

2017-09-11 14:25:28 GMT <angelborroy> which in fact is a property ;-)

2017-09-11 14:25:56 GMT <yreg> let me finish the displayHandler thing and I will tell you how many lines exactly

2017-09-11 14:26:28 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, A solr field not a property, a smal distinction but stays a distinction

2017-09-11 14:26:58 GMT <angelborroy> just trying to help

2017-09-11 14:28:40 GMT <yreg> Thanks

2017-09-11 14:29:37 GMT <yreg> I am just a bit pissed off because this sounds so trivial and would only cost few lines when done within codebase, while now I need to write a lot of code to make it upgrade friendly ...

2017-09-11 14:31:12 GMT <angelborroy> TYPE field is indexed by SOLR

2017-09-11 14:31:39 GMT <angelborroy> so, yes, it looks easy but, as you say, very boring for a developer

2017-09-11 14:33:34 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, this actually could have been implemented by adding 2 lines to the base code

2017-09-11 14:33:49 GMT <yreg> 1 line to a java file and one other to an XML file

2017-09-11 14:34:13 GMT <angelborroy> you always can submit an issue with a patch :~

2017-09-11 14:36:22 GMT <yreg> I will need to check if it has already been implemented for solr6 first, thanks for the suggestion

2017-09-11 14:39:23 GMT <angelborroy> SOLR 6 has TYPE indexed also

2017-09-11 19:19:16 GMT <jpotts> Today I learned that if you are an admin or an owner of a doc, you get all permissions. That means if you are adding specific logic in Share customizations to check for the presence of a specific permission, it will return true for admins and owners

2017-09-11 19:19:22 GMT <jpotts> Even if that permission has not been explicitly added

2017-09-11 19:19:52 GMT <jpotts> Which is a real pain in the ass

2017-09-11 20:24:11 GMT *** IanW2 is now known as IanW1

2017-09-11 20:43:26 GMT *** jpotts1 is now known as jpotts

2017-09-11 21:06:47 GMT <AFaust> jpotts: Well, that is fullControl="true" for you...

2017-09-11 21:07:18 GMT <AFaust> You even have the permissions that might be added in a major release 5 years from now...

2017-09-11 21:07:57 GMT <AFaust> Though, who isn't removing the default owner privileges as the first customisation to the permission model?

2017-09-11 21:08:28 GMT <AFaust> Or at least making sure that owner is always set to the empty string (NO_OWNER constant)...

2017-09-11 21:08:47 GMT <AFaust> That definitely is one of the first customisations I do in about 80-90% of projects.

2017-09-11 21:09:06 GMT <jpotts> I figured out a way around it, which is to add a new permission that cannot be set by the UI. Call it "auto" or "all". Then if I want to know whether or not the user is an admin or an owner I can just check for that permission.

2017-09-11 21:09:51 GMT <jpotts> Really, if I want to know whether the specific permission was set explicitly or not, I also check that

2017-09-11 21:10:02 GMT <jpotts> Kind of a hack

2017-09-11 21:10:27 GMT <AFaust> Why not check the permission "FullControl" - it exists by default and can not be set via the UI unless you configure it...

2017-09-11 21:10:42 GMT <jpotts> Hmm

2017-09-11 21:13:24 GMT <AFaust> I always imagined that this entire full control business in Alfresco would come around and bite somebody in the butt. I'd have loved if every capability of the admin was modelled as a permission on the specific node (e.g. CreatePerson on sys:system/sys:people container), so you could also delegate some of the admin privileges to power users...

2017-09-11 21:14:06 GMT <jpotts> That permission doesn't come through in the permissions.user object

2017-09-11 21:14:12 GMT *** resplin_ is now known as resplin

2017-09-11 21:14:21 GMT <AFaust> There could still be a short-cut for admin in that a special permission admin (combining all the default permissions) could be granted to the groip as a "global permission"

2017-09-11 21:14:37 GMT <resplin> I hadn't thought about this consequence of our permission model before.

2017-09-11 21:14:47 GMT <AFaust> Ah - you want to check on the Share tier.

2017-09-11 21:14:52 GMT <jpotts> Indeed

2017-09-11 21:15:04 GMT <jpotts> It's okay, my little hack is working

2017-09-11 21:15:40 GMT <jpotts> resplin: Permissions in Share is an absolute nightmare. Especially when customers want to treat Share like a portal and basically be able to turn on/off every little thing

2017-09-11 21:16:27 GMT <jpotts> Go look at how many hoops you have to jump through to (1) Designate a custom role and then (2) Disable things like download and quickshare for that new role in all places those features appear

2017-09-11 21:16:36 GMT <resplin> Yes. I hear that Ole has been looking at how to make that cleaner in the ADF.

2017-09-11 21:16:40 GMT <jpotts> It's days of work

2017-09-11 21:17:08 GMT <resplin> I hadn't previously considered how hard it is to differentiate an admin user from other users who have lots of permissions, and might accidentally receive future permissions.

2017-09-11 21:17:38 GMT <resplin> From a repository perspective, we have received a lot of requests for "dynamic permissions", "delegated administration", and "granular administration". We have been investigating how to make the core permission model flexible enough for these use cases.

2017-09-11 21:17:41 GMT <jpotts> Yes, in my case, I'm giving a special perm to certain users, but then I'm using the presence of that perm to take away features

2017-09-11 21:17:52 GMT <jpotts> So admins/owners get those features taken away as well without my little hack

2017-09-11 21:17:54 GMT <resplin> Don't have any work on that scheduled at the moment, but it is interesting to see your specific challenge.

2017-09-11 21:17:57 GMT * AFaust wishes anyone at Alfresco would understand that ADF is never a good answer to give when people complain about Share. It just pours more salt into the wound...

2017-09-11 21:18:53 GMT <jpotts> When customers start giving me a list of things they want to disable and I come back with, "You really ought to have me develop a custom UI" they look at me like I have two heads

2017-09-11 21:18:56 GMT <resplin> AFaust: It's where the current development effort is. Share's deficiencies aren't scheduled to change at the moment.

2017-09-11 21:19:07 GMT <jpotts> And "develop a custom UI" == ADF

2017-09-11 21:19:40 GMT <resplin> Understood. I'm just acknowledging that we are familiar with that class of frustration.

2017-09-11 21:19:41 GMT <jpotts> Customer: "But I just want to take something out of the Create Menu".

2017-09-11 21:20:08 GMT <jpotts> Me: "Yeah, I know, that's going to cost you."

2017-09-11 21:20:08 GMT <AFaust> You: "Nope, the vendor never thought that might be a thing people do"

2017-09-11 21:20:23 GMT <resplin> Our current answer is "Share isn't intended to be extended". The part we don't say is because it is evolved into a mess of three different paradigms.

2017-09-11 21:20:32 GMT <jpotts> LOL

2017-09-11 21:20:37 GMT <AFaust> ^^ indeed

2017-09-11 21:21:13 GMT <jpotts> There are definitely days when I'm knee deep in Share stuff and I'm really questioning my life choices

2017-09-11 21:21:49 GMT <resplin> Then you realize that you work from home and get to play with your kids every day. grin

2017-09-11 21:21:53 GMT <jpotts> I don't know if ADF will be production-ready by the time I decide to quit and open a Jet Ski rental hut in Costa Rica.

2017-09-11 21:22:08 GMT <resplin> Well, except that they grew up and moved out for college, and turned into generally successful people.

2017-09-11 21:22:22 GMT <resplin> Not a bad set of life choices . . .

2017-09-11 21:23:26 GMT <jpotts> Oh man, you played the, "It seems to have worked out well for you card"

2017-09-11 21:23:34 GMT <jpotts> Like right out of the gate

2017-09-11 21:23:54 GMT <resplin> It was just so natural.

2017-09-11 21:24:06 GMT <AFaust> If my experience working with Process Services is any indicator (and the way ADF currently looks to shape up), it will be an even bigger mess for integrators in the long run. Repeatedly doing the same boring copy&paste&adapt customisation and compositions because the only thing you really can re-use are components, but pages have to rebuilt from the start EVERY. SINGLE. PROJECT.

2017-09-11 21:24:41 GMT <jpotts> I'll go back to providing for my family now. Firefox dev tools, Debugger, Enabled.

2017-09-11 21:24:48 GMT <resplin> AFaust: My expectation is that your experience with APS will not be an indicator of how ADF turns out. Because Ole was really mad and sent everyone back to the drawing board.

2017-09-11 21:24:57 GMT <resplin> He seems much happier with the last few months worth of work.

2017-09-11 21:25:36 GMT <resplin> However, I have to admit that I don't really know. I can barely keep up with the projects I signed up for and haven't looked at ADF or APS much yet.

2017-09-11 21:25:58 GMT <AFaust> There is only so much that they can change. It is a matter of the frigging core framework, an opinionated, ugly thing some people call Angular...

2017-09-11 21:26:34 GMT <resplin> jpotts: I noted your use case as one that I hadn't previously considered for us to discuss as a team as we look at enhanced permissions in the repo.

2017-09-11 21:27:08 GMT <jpotts> I actually had a pretty fun little project recently with Angular on the front end talking to Alfresco via CMIS. No ADF or anything. Just good old API's.

2017-09-11 21:27:24 GMT <jpotts> resplin: Thanks

2017-09-11 21:27:34 GMT * AFaust is going to check if the single washing machine in his building block is finally free, so he actually may have a chance to wear a fresh shirt to the customer tomorrow...

2017-09-11 21:28:15 GMT <resplin> AFaust: Opinionated frameworks are great for junior devs like me who don't want to make decisions about my UI. grin

2017-09-11 21:28:34 GMT * resplin realizes that he's trolling AFaust's pet peeve.

2017-09-11 21:28:47 GMT <resplin> It's cruel when I know you need to go do laundry.

2017-09-11 21:32:28 GMT <AFaust> Luckily though, the trip is a short one...

2017-09-11 21:32:50 GMT <AFaust> But yes, you seem to have understood the problem with (most) modern UI frameworks.

2017-09-11 21:34:58 GMT <AFaust> Instead of considering what an UI for a product really needs, pick a "hip" framework and go - what could possibly go wrong. It is the "nobody's ever been fired for buying IBM" for the web development world...

2017-09-11 21:36:23 GMT <AFaust> But similar to jpotts I am looking forward to whenever ADF will be production ready to pass final judgement. A that time I'll likely have reached the 1/3 milestone of my work life...

2017-09-11 21:39:17 GMT * AFaust just panicked and grabbed a calculator, to make sure that this is still long enough into the future and he hasn't gotten THAT old already...

End of Daily Log

The other logs are at http://esplins.org/hash_alfresco