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2017-11-07 07:10:40 GMT <twen> good morning
2017-11-07 07:15:51 GMT <digcat> morning twen
2017-11-07 07:16:13 GMT <twen> o/
2017-11-07 07:37:47 GMT <yreg> Good morning
2017-11-07 07:39:24 GMT <Tichodroma> good morning
2017-11-07 08:06:46 GMT *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fcorti
2017-11-07 08:07:53 GMT *** fcorti changes topic to "Alfresco discussion and collaboration. Stick around a few hours after asking a question. Logs: http://chat.alfresco.com Channel help: https://community.alfresco.com/ Official support for Enterprise subscribers: http://support.alfresco.com. Next event is Office Hours, the 17th of November, on embedding Alfresco using the OEM Program: https://youtu.be/Mf3QnIBEuSU."
2017-11-07 08:31:29 GMT <DarkStar1> Good morning everyone
2017-11-07 09:33:28 GMT <hiten> Hey There
2017-11-07 09:34:55 GMT <hiten> @AFaust - I applied alwaysApply tag to my share header customisation but it didn't seem to be working. I checked other post also ans people are facing this issue. I can't find the solution for this. Any idea what needs to be done.
2017-11-07 09:36:49 GMT <AFaust> I don't know what to tell you - it works perfectly everytime I use it. e.g.: https://github.com/Acosix/alfresco-site-hierarchy/blob/master/share/src/main/globalConfig/site-data/extensions/acosix-site-hierarchy-extension.xml#L35
2017-11-07 09:36:50 GMT <alfbot> Title: alfresco-site-hierarchy/acosix-site-hierarchy-extension.xml at master · Acosix/alfresco-site-hierarchy · GitHub (at github.com)
2017-11-07 10:18:19 GMT <hiten> does the target package has any role to play as to why the applyAlways is not working
2017-11-07 10:18:40 GMT <hiten> yours - <targetPackageRoot>org.alfresco.share.pages</targetPackageRoot>
2017-11-07 10:18:51 GMT <hiten> mine - <targetPackageRoot>org.alfresco.share.header</targetPackageRoot>
2017-11-07 10:44:32 GMT <douglascrp> good morning
2017-11-07 11:27:09 GMT <AFaust> ~later tell hiten: Yes, of course the targetPackageRoot is important to define which Alfresco web scripts are affected. I.e. for faceted search you'd want to affect the faceted search page web script
2017-11-07 11:27:09 GMT <alfbot> AFaust: The operation succeeded.
2017-11-07 11:44:25 GMT <angelborroy> anyone have tried that FINGERPRINT SOLR feature?
2017-11-07 11:44:39 GMT <angelborroy> it looks like it has some problems with SSL
2017-11-07 11:44:52 GMT <angelborroy> I can’t get it working
2017-11-07 11:59:48 GMT <angelborroy> It looks like there is a MINHASH SOLR field and it has values inside
2017-11-07 11:59:56 GMT <angelborroy> but my FINGERPRINT query is not working
2017-11-07 12:00:24 GMT <AFaust> Haven't tried it yet.
2017-11-07 12:00:44 GMT <AFaust> From what I've read so far I fear the FINGERPRINT feature may be too simplistic / naive...
2017-11-07 12:01:46 GMT <angelborroy> I found a new field at SOLR core schema
2017-11-07 12:01:54 GMT <angelborroy> it looks a hash of the document
2017-11-07 12:02:05 GMT <angelborroy> It’s called MINHASH
2017-11-07 12:02:34 GMT <angelborroy> In theory, you can use FINGERPRINT:”uuid” to retrieve documents with the same MINHASH from FTS queries
2017-11-07 12:02:58 GMT <angelborroy> it should be enough for my use case
2017-11-07 12:03:02 GMT <angelborroy> if it works
2017-11-07 12:17:40 GMT <danric> Hi all.
2017-11-07 12:22:02 GMT <danric> Someone has experienced solr 6 tracker skipping a lot of transactions which are not mentioned neither in unindexed count and error count? Is it possible that stopping alfresco while solr6 tracker full reindex is running can cause an issue like many transaction are missing from the index?
2017-11-07 12:24:24 GMT <angelborroy> danric it should not happen
2017-11-07 12:24:51 GMT <angelborroy> probably SOLR is skipping transactions if there is not content to index involved in that transactions
2017-11-07 12:35:58 GMT <angelborroy> AFaust probably I’m stupid, but I can’t get it working
2017-11-07 12:36:18 GMT <angelborroy> AFaust I’ll try later with a brand new Docker SOLR 6
2017-11-07 12:36:20 GMT <AFaust> I vote for the other, improbable option...
2017-11-07 12:36:58 GMT <AFaust> that the feature may simple not work without some undocumented magic
2017-11-07 12:37:11 GMT <angelborroy> probably
2017-11-07 12:37:29 GMT <angelborroy> I’ll share my findings if I cast the right spell
2017-11-07 12:38:00 GMT <danric> I don't know which is the cause but the tracker skipped many transaction without errors.
2017-11-07 12:39:18 GMT <danric> doing a reindex just on a transaction (which was not indexed) fixed that transaction
2017-11-07 12:40:53 GMT <danric> sorry, the reindex was made by nodeid, not by transaction
2017-11-07 12:42:04 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, have you seen the suzuky's blog posts and video on the topic?
2017-11-07 12:42:18 GMT <douglascrp> suzuki, not sure about the spelling
2017-11-07 12:43:36 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, sorry, it was Andy, not Suzuky
2017-11-07 12:43:36 GMT <douglascrp> https://community.alfresco.com/people/andy1/blog/2017/05/12/document-fingerprints
2017-11-07 12:43:37 GMT <alfbot> Title: Document Fingerprints | Alfresco Community (at community.alfresco.com)
2017-11-07 12:51:05 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, and this one was the tech talk live https://youtu.be/3u8UpgZTNFk
2017-11-07 12:51:18 GMT <douglascrp> but I guess you know those already
2017-11-07 12:52:26 GMT <mtsiak> hi all. apart from the listed ports in alfresco documentation (e.g. http://docs.alfresco.com/5.0/concepts/port-number-defaults.html), we detect some more related to tomcat's java process,e.g. 9010, 37676, 9998. Where can i find the purpose of those ports and config them?
2017-11-07 12:52:28 GMT <alfbot> Title: Default port numbers and services | Alfresco Documentation (at docs.alfresco.com)
2017-11-07 12:56:36 GMT <AFaust> mtsiak: None of these ports ring a bell for me. You should be aware that for every connection Alfresco / Tomcat opens to another service (i.e. DB), a random local TCP client port will typically be established. So it is important to know, where these ports connect to (unless they are set to "listen" mode)
2017-11-07 12:56:47 GMT <AFaust> Without a proper netstat report, it will be hard to tell...
2017-11-07 12:58:45 GMT <mtsiak> AFaust they are set to listen. e.g. tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:9010 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 28888/java
2017-11-07 12:59:06 GMT <mtsiak> and we do have a local database for the alfresco.
2017-11-07 12:59:58 GMT <AFaust> Also, if you have customised anything with regards to the JVM parameters or Tomcat server.xml ("customised" = have different from what the installer provides), it would also be important to know
2017-11-07 13:04:14 GMT <danric> https://issues.alfresco.com/jira/browse/SEARCH-303
2017-11-07 13:04:56 GMT <danric> to confirm that certain behaviors can be possible.
2017-11-07 13:24:23 GMT <angelborroy> I’m trying to find the “FINGERPRINT” in that YouTube
2017-11-07 13:30:11 GMT <mtsiak> AFaust ok, 9998 and 9100 are related to the remote jconsole that i had forgot that i had enabled. So i quess that 37676 could be related to the local mariadb?
2017-11-07 13:34:38 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, I may be mistaken about the video
2017-11-07 13:34:42 GMT <douglascrp> sorry if that is the case
2017-11-07 13:34:49 GMT <douglascrp> but I am almost sure it was that one
2017-11-07 13:34:56 GMT <angelborroy> douglascrp no, it’s the one
2017-11-07 13:35:04 GMT <angelborroy> douglascrp but it is too large
2017-11-07 13:35:14 GMT <douglascrp> I even remember he had some problems during the demo
2017-11-07 13:46:42 GMT <angelborroy> 48:00 - 50:00 FINGERPRINT is not working :D
2017-11-07 13:46:56 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, yes, that one :D
2017-11-07 13:47:21 GMT <douglascrp> but if I am not wrong, there is another blog post or video where he shows what was wrong
2017-11-07 13:47:30 GMT <douglascrp> but I could not find that information to share with you
2017-11-07 14:00:08 GMT <angelborroy> douglascrp anyway, I don’t feel this is a reliable feature
2017-11-07 14:01:19 GMT <angelborroy> The MINHASH is the same for cm:invite-email_es.html.ftl and cm:invite-email_de.html.ftl
2017-11-07 14:03:15 GMT <angelborroy> so I’m going to forget all about this “new” feature and re-use my old hash calculation strategy
2017-11-07 14:03:46 GMT <angelborroy> AFaust definitively “fingerprint” is not what I expected
2017-11-07 14:04:12 GMT <AFaust> I am not surprised
2017-11-07 14:05:11 GMT <angelborroy> It doesn’t work, but when it works is a feature to find similarities
2017-11-07 14:07:07 GMT <angelborroy> and a template in German is detected as similar to a template in Spanish
2017-11-07 14:07:17 GMT <angelborroy> which for me is not “so similar"
2017-11-07 14:08:22 GMT <AFaust> Well, a "template" - you mean an FTL one? Well, most of the structure should be pretty identical, so I can see why it comes up as similar
2017-11-07 14:08:32 GMT <angelborroy> yep
2017-11-07 14:08:58 GMT <angelborroy> but in the end there are many differences inside
2017-11-07 14:09:08 GMT <angelborroy> probably only 50% of the text is shared
2017-11-07 14:09:09 GMT <AFaust> But given how they treat LocaleA != LocaleB in other areas of search, it sure is surprising they treat it as similar there...
2017-11-07 14:09:34 GMT <angelborroy> I’m going to explore this approach https://www.parashift.com.au/2015/11/23/detecting-duplicates-and-related-items-in-alfresco/
2017-11-07 14:09:35 GMT <alfbot> Title: Detecting Duplicates and Related Items in Alfresco - ParashiftParashift (at www.parashift.com.au)
2017-11-07 14:09:38 GMT <AFaust> I would have though that any other node not in the same locale be ignored, just as the regular search does
2017-11-07 14:09:41 GMT <angelborroy> using a “dedupe”
2017-11-07 14:10:07 GMT <angelborroy> it’s based in MD5, which can be enough
2017-11-07 14:12:13 GMT <angelborroy> any this is not synchronous, as it’s based in SOLR
2017-11-07 14:12:39 GMT <angelborroy> nope, I have to use my old hashing behaviour approach
2017-11-07 14:26:15 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, What's your use case ?
2017-11-07 14:26:36 GMT <yreg> Are you trying to avoid having duplicate content ?
2017-11-07 14:26:44 GMT <angelborroy> yreg same as ever, if a user includes a duplicated content on a folder then… blah, blah, blah
2017-11-07 14:27:06 GMT <angelborroy> I was just trying to use the new features for that
2017-11-07 14:27:15 GMT <yreg> or are you trying to find identical documents to delete dupes ?
2017-11-07 14:27:21 GMT <angelborroy> nope
2017-11-07 14:27:24 GMT <angelborroy> is on uploading
2017-11-07 14:27:29 GMT <yreg> alright
2017-11-07 14:27:41 GMT <angelborroy> I should use AFaust dedup ContentStore, I know
2017-11-07 14:27:51 GMT <yreg> How did you try the fingerprint query ?
2017-11-07 14:27:51 GMT <angelborroy> but it’s not my requirement now
2017-11-07 14:28:04 GMT <angelborroy> FINGERPRINT:’uuid’
2017-11-07 14:28:07 GMT <yreg> did you try it with _100_100
2017-11-07 14:28:08 GMT <angelborroy> FINGERPRINT:’db-id’
2017-11-07 14:28:24 GMT <angelborroy> it does not work
2017-11-07 14:28:31 GMT <yreg> try FINGERPRINT:’db-id_99_99’ for instance
2017-11-07 14:28:32 GMT <angelborroy> so I could just try it in SOLR part
2017-11-07 14:28:35 GMT <angelborroy> not in Alfresco
2017-11-07 14:28:55 GMT <angelborroy> I tested also FINGERPRINT:’uuid_80_20'
2017-11-07 14:28:57 GMT <angelborroy> with no luck
2017-11-07 14:30:24 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, you know that basically ready Get me documents with 80% overlap with 20% probablity ?
2017-11-07 14:30:55 GMT <angelborroy> yep, I read that
2017-11-07 14:31:24 GMT <yreg> try FINGERPRINT:’uuid_90_90' I would be amazed if you still get content from other locales then
2017-11-07 14:31:52 GMT <angelborroy> nope, I’m not obtaining results from FINGERPRINT
2017-11-07 14:31:58 GMT <angelborroy> It does not work for me
2017-11-07 14:32:06 GMT <angelborroy> I was inspecting MINHASH values at SOLR core
2017-11-07 14:32:21 GMT <angelborroy> and both locale templates had the same MINHASH value
2017-11-07 14:36:42 GMT <yreg> aha! that's a shame
2017-11-07 14:39:18 GMT <yreg> fcorti, is there a reason why this does not seem to be actively maintained ? https://community.alfresco.com/docs/DOC-5429-live
2017-11-07 14:39:20 GMT <alfbot> Title: Tech Talk Live | Alfresco Community (at community.alfresco.com)
2017-11-07 14:40:43 GMT <fcorti> hi yreg... yes, the priorities. :-)
2017-11-07 15:05:35 GMT <fcorti> ok yreg... I did not resist... I updated the page :-)
2017-11-07 15:07:04 GMT <yreg> hehe, thanks
2017-11-07 15:07:37 GMT <yreg> FYI it is my first instinct to go search for content on that page..
2017-11-07 15:07:45 GMT <angelborroy> douglascrp is uploader-plus working for 201707?
2017-11-07 15:07:56 GMT <yreg> also to refer newbies and colleagues to it
2017-11-07 15:09:53 GMT <angelborroy> fcorti I sent you a present for that! :D
2017-11-07 15:09:56 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, last time I checked it had some issues
2017-11-07 15:10:15 GMT <angelborroy> ok, I’m going to try anyway
2017-11-07 15:10:27 GMT <angelborroy> probably my use case is very basic
2017-11-07 15:10:29 GMT <fcorti> angelborroy :-D
2017-11-07 15:10:44 GMT <fcorti> Thanks you... I'll send you my bank account
2017-11-07 15:10:46 GMT <fcorti> :-D
2017-11-07 15:11:14 GMT <fcorti> (jokes apart, thank you for keeping an eye on this and let me know ;-) )
2017-11-07 15:11:20 GMT <angelborroy> -= THIS MESSAGE NOT LOGGED =-
2017-11-07 15:11:53 GMT <angelborroy> ups, I think I failed the (nolog) Sorry for that
2017-11-07 15:12:02 GMT <fcorti> no prob
2017-11-07 15:12:07 GMT <fcorti> it's not a secret
2017-11-07 15:12:22 GMT <fcorti> :-D yes... and like a real italian I'll open a pizzeria
2017-11-07 15:12:32 GMT <yreg> https://github.com/softwareloop/uploader-plus/issues/119
2017-11-07 15:12:32 GMT <fcorti> Da Francesco!
2017-11-07 15:12:33 GMT <alfbot> Title: UP is not working properly with Alfresco 5.2 · Issue #119 · softwareloop/uploader-plus · GitHub (at github.com)
2017-11-07 15:15:45 GMT <angelborroy> yreg it works for me
2017-11-07 15:15:51 GMT <angelborroy> but I’m using 201707
2017-11-07 15:16:35 GMT <yreg> Glad to hear that
2017-11-07 15:18:15 GMT <angelborroy> I’m trying to solve another problem
2017-11-07 15:18:36 GMT <angelborroy> To keep metadata traking for version 1.0
2017-11-07 15:19:02 GMT <angelborroy> As Alfresco creates 1.0 just after the document has been uploaded, no custom property is associated to this version
2017-11-07 15:19:14 GMT <angelborroy> I should say “Share” creates
2017-11-07 15:19:29 GMT <angelborroy> uploader-plus does not solve that
2017-11-07 15:34:45 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, uploader-plus actually imports OOTB upload webscript and just adds the metadata afterwards
2017-11-07 15:34:55 GMT <angelborroy> yes, I’m seeing that
2017-11-07 15:35:07 GMT <angelborroy> I’m modifying it to create the version AFTER updating properties
2017-11-07 15:35:09 GMT <angelborroy> It should work
2017-11-07 15:37:02 GMT <angelborroy> main problem is that I don’t know how to make this without overwritting something
2017-11-07 15:37:47 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, I know about some issues with share 5.2
2017-11-07 15:38:12 GMT <angelborroy> very relevant?
2017-11-07 15:39:12 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, drag and drop not working, for example
2017-11-07 15:39:25 GMT <angelborroy> drag and drop is working for me
2017-11-07 15:39:27 GMT <douglascrp> but I have not tried it myself to see what more can be broken
2017-11-07 15:39:30 GMT <angelborroy> have you tried with 201707?
2017-11-07 15:39:30 GMT <douglascrp> really?
2017-11-07 15:39:34 GMT <angelborroy> yep
2017-11-07 15:39:39 GMT <douglascrp> well, so I have no idea
2017-11-07 15:39:50 GMT <angelborroy> But you all are very tricky with that addon
2017-11-07 15:39:58 GMT <angelborroy> This is evil: https://github.com/softwareloop/uploader-plus/blob/master/repo/src/main/amp/config/alfresco/templates/webscripts/com/softwareloop/uploader-plus/upload.post.js#L1
2017-11-07 15:40:00 GMT <alfbot> Title: uploader-plus/upload.post.js at master · softwareloop/uploader-plus · GitHub (at github.com)
2017-11-07 15:40:16 GMT <angelborroy> It makes me very hard to test my use case :(
2017-11-07 15:44:17 GMT <angelborroy> anyway I have to overwrite upload.post.js, so...
2017-11-07 15:47:33 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, it is made like that to permit it to work across multiple alfresco versions
2017-11-07 15:47:42 GMT <angelborroy> yep, I know
2017-11-07 15:47:55 GMT <angelborroy> just only trying to imagine how to put it all together
2017-11-07 15:48:18 GMT <yreg> I assume you can replace that call with the entire original upload webscript content, and loose the checkin line and call it at the end after metadata has been applied instead
2017-11-07 15:49:14 GMT <angelborroy> this was my initial idea
2017-11-07 15:49:19 GMT <angelborroy> but this is a bad idea
2017-11-07 15:49:26 GMT <angelborroy> so I’m trying to find another path
2017-11-07 15:52:25 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, https://github.com/Alfresco/alfresco-remote-api/blob/develop/src/main/resources/alfresco/templates/webscripts/org/alfresco/repository/upload/upload.post.js#L481
2017-11-07 15:52:26 GMT <alfbot> Title: alfresco-remote-api/upload.post.js at develop · Alfresco/alfresco-remote-api · GitHub (at github.com)
2017-11-07 15:52:59 GMT <yreg> I think the safest path you have is to disable autoversioning
2017-11-07 15:53:33 GMT <yreg> and then create a new behaviour to add versioning automatically on transaction commit instead of every event
2017-11-07 15:53:42 GMT <yreg> that's the cleanest path I can think of
2017-11-07 15:53:49 GMT <angelborroy> Interesting
2017-11-07 15:53:52 GMT <angelborroy> Let me see
2017-11-07 15:54:53 GMT <yreg> https://github.com/Alfresco/alfresco-remote-api/blob/develop/src/main/resources/alfresco/templates/webscripts/org/alfresco/repository/upload/upload.post.config.xml
2017-11-07 15:54:54 GMT <alfbot> Title: alfresco-remote-api/upload.post.config.xml at develop · Alfresco/alfresco-remote-api · GitHub (at github.com)
2017-11-07 15:55:19 GMT <angelborroy> wow
2017-11-07 15:55:21 GMT <angelborroy> this is not easy
2017-11-07 15:55:35 GMT <angelborroy> as I’m overriding for everyone
2017-11-07 15:55:47 GMT <angelborroy> I’m tryint go overwrite only for uploader-plus
2017-11-07 16:02:56 GMT <douglascrp> no, I have not even tried to simulate the reported errors
2017-11-07 16:07:11 GMT * AFaust LOLs at some sections of the "day in the life of a quickstarter"...
2017-11-07 16:10:36 GMT <fcorti> AFaust: which ones in particular?
2017-11-07 16:10:54 GMT <AFaust> "A deployment that may typically have taken days and weeks to manually complete now only takes minutes"
2017-11-07 16:11:15 GMT <angelborroy> In Spain we say: “poetic license”
2017-11-07 16:11:15 GMT <AFaust> "days and weeks"???
2017-11-07 16:11:23 GMT <angelborroy> or simple huge exageration
2017-11-07 16:12:17 GMT <fcorti> yeah, maybe "too much"
2017-11-07 16:13:42 GMT <angelborroy> oh, it looks like “poetic license” is also used in English :)
2017-11-07 16:21:37 GMT <digcat> hi all, was just reading https://community.alfresco.com/community/bpm/blog
2017-11-07 16:21:39 GMT <alfbot> Title: Alfresco Process Services & Activiti (... | Alfresco Community (at community.alfresco.com)
2017-11-07 16:21:55 GMT <digcat> was wondering if anyone knows difference between activiti and activiti cloud?
2017-11-07 16:22:05 GMT <digcat> and yes i get cloud might mean running in the cloud
2017-11-07 16:22:27 GMT <digcat> but was wondering if its another code base
2017-11-07 16:23:36 GMT <digcat> ahh ok,
2017-11-07 16:23:42 GMT <digcat> so just introducing the word cloud
2017-11-07 16:23:46 GMT <digcat> im assuming
2017-11-07 16:23:47 GMT <digcat> https://hub.docker.com/r/activiti/activiti-cloud-sso-idm/
2017-11-07 16:24:55 GMT <yreg> digcat, https://activiti.gitbooks.io/activiti-7-developers-guide/content/introduction.html
2017-11-07 16:24:56 GMT <alfbot> Title: What is Activiti Cloud? · Activiti 7 & Activiti Cloud Developers Guide (at activiti.gitbooks.io)
2017-11-07 16:25:11 GMT <digcat> ah ha
2017-11-07 16:25:17 GMT <digcat> thanks yreg
2017-11-07 16:27:11 GMT <yreg> digcat, I have been following activiti closely lately and there seems to be a great deal of efforts there
2017-11-07 16:28:16 GMT <angelborroy> yref douglascrp AFaust I’ve modified uploader plus to update metadata before versioning
2017-11-07 16:28:30 GMT <angelborroy> Not sure yet on how to make it configurable and safer
2017-11-07 16:28:33 GMT <digcat> yes, i see that they plan to remove embedded activiti from the acs, so would make sense to get activiti up to speed,
2017-11-07 16:28:42 GMT <angelborroy> Do you think is a nice contribution for the addon?
2017-11-07 16:28:43 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, I would be interested in reviewing that
2017-11-07 16:29:10 GMT <yreg> digcat, where did you see that ?
2017-11-07 16:29:11 GMT <angelborroy> by now just overriding the whole upload.post.js thing
2017-11-07 16:29:46 GMT <yreg> I can understand if embedded activiti does not get love anymore (same case as share) but I would not expect Alfresco to take it out
2017-11-07 16:29:50 GMT <digcat> angelborroy you mod sounds a better idea
2017-11-07 16:29:51 GMT <digcat> https://community.alfresco.com/docs/DOC-1085-alfresco-ecm-product-roadmap
2017-11-07 16:29:53 GMT <alfbot> Title: Content Repository Roadmap 2017 | Alfresco Community (at community.alfresco.com)
2017-11-07 16:29:59 GMT <digcat> Replace the embedded Activiti with the stand-alone Activiti
2017-11-07 16:29:59 GMT <digcat> Allow people to use the Activiti designers for "workflow", and make it easy to upgrade for full "process services"
2017-11-07 16:29:59 GMT <digcat> This will require re-implementing workflows to use out-of-process Activiti APIs.
2017-11-07 16:30:26 GMT <angelborroy> digcat yes, they are extracting Activiti from Alfresco
2017-11-07 16:30:43 GMT <angelborroy> digcat probably next ACS release will not include Activiti Engine inside
2017-11-07 16:30:57 GMT <digcat> yep
2017-11-07 16:31:14 GMT <yreg> extracting != removing :)
2017-11-07 16:31:15 GMT <digcat> so share will be broken from then on
2017-11-07 16:31:17 GMT <digcat> ?
2017-11-07 16:31:27 GMT <digcat> or you think it will be refactored
2017-11-07 16:31:32 GMT <angelborroy> yreg sorry, I meant removing
2017-11-07 16:31:42 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, doesn't site invites rely on activiti ? among other OOTB features ?
2017-11-07 16:31:43 GMT <angelborroy> Why is going to be Share broken?
2017-11-07 16:32:04 GMT <angelborroy> I think is only for the inviting system, which was “hidden” in last releases
2017-11-07 16:32:10 GMT <yreg> I would highly doubt they simply remove it before depricating it for a couple of releases first !
2017-11-07 16:33:52 GMT <yreg> embedde jBPM was there for ages before it finally got deleted
2017-11-07 16:34:03 GMT <digcat> the simple workflows?
2017-11-07 16:34:48 GMT <digcat> will they work without embedded activiti?
2017-11-07 16:34:58 GMT <angelborroy> it looks like “yes"
2017-11-07 16:35:15 GMT <angelborroy> Share works without Activiti, no many features rely on it
2017-11-07 16:35:38 GMT <angelborroy> As you know I’m not modelling workflows inside Alfresco, so it’s the right path IMO
2017-11-07 16:35:51 GMT <angelborroy> But it should provoke many headaches to many people
2017-11-07 16:35:53 GMT <digcat> ahh, i thought the embedded activiti was used by share
2017-11-07 16:36:06 GMT <digcat> i agree, the simpler the stack the better
2017-11-07 16:36:25 GMT <digcat> and makes total sense to have external BPM engine, at least then easier to scale
2017-11-07 16:37:03 GMT <yreg> digcat, makes sense
2017-11-07 16:38:48 GMT <yreg> digcat, angelborroy I might mis-expressed my thoughts: I was saying that I do not expect embedded workflows to get special attention/upgrade to a more recent activiti ... I expect it to be on life support (same as share) at least for a while before being eventually dumped
2017-11-07 16:39:10 GMT <angelborroy> yreg it makes sense, yes
2017-11-07 16:39:12 GMT <digcat> yes
2017-11-07 17:31:20 GMT <yreg> ~later tell resplin ping
2017-11-07 17:31:20 GMT <alfbot> yreg: The operation succeeded.
2017-11-07 17:50:41 GMT <AFaust> digcat: "The simpler the stack the better" - said the 50 year old office worker putting paper files in a folder...
2017-11-07 17:52:53 GMT <AFaust> Though easier to scale if external BPM, I wonder sometimes if people completely forget about transactionality requirements. External process engine, external extension points, micro-services etc... I am not looking forward to managing the many constellations of partially consistent state between multiple mini silo-applications
2017-11-07 17:56:08 GMT <yreg> +1 +1 AFaust
2017-11-07 17:58:18 GMT <yreg> AFaust, I know that sych *transactionability is possible over SOAP calls, I doubt it would be possible over REST calls
2017-11-07 18:00:07 GMT <yreg> **such
2017-11-07 18:02:29 GMT <douglascrp> yreg, about "I can understand if embedded activiti does not get love anymore (same case as share) but I would not expect Alfresco to take it out"
2017-11-07 18:02:38 GMT <douglascrp> I saw that is in the road map
2017-11-07 18:02:55 GMT <douglascrp> ah, digcat posted the link :D
2017-11-07 18:03:01 GMT <douglascrp> I am late
2017-11-07 18:03:30 GMT <douglascrp> AFaust, "LOLs at some sections of the "day in the life of a quickstarter"
2017-11-07 18:03:33 GMT <douglascrp> what is that?
2017-11-07 18:06:45 GMT <AFaust> https://community.alfresco.com/blogs/devops/2017/11/06/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-quickstarter?platform=hootsuite
2017-11-07 18:06:46 GMT <alfbot> Title: A day in the life of a Quickstarter! | Alfresco Community (at community.alfresco.com)
2017-11-07 18:07:04 GMT <douglascrp> AFaust, tks... that is a new one
2017-11-07 18:10:04 GMT <digcat> hey afaust of course you raise very valid points, the way transactionality will work under a micro services architecture is yet to be clear, so much change, it would be good to nut out any use cases which would illustrate those issues
2017-11-07 18:12:37 GMT <digcat> ~later tell resplin re axels comments, how will transactions be handled once the bpm engine is external to the repo, do you have any specific checks to cover this ?
2017-11-07 18:12:37 GMT <alfbot> digcat: The operation succeeded.
2017-11-07 18:19:22 GMT <digcat> tbh i think although can imagine how nasty problems around transactionabilty between disperate processes engines and repos, i suspect they have bigger issues to overcome
2017-11-07 18:26:21 GMT <alfbot> resplin: Sent 55 minutes ago: <yreg> ping
2017-11-07 18:26:22 GMT <alfbot> resplin: Sent 13 minutes ago: <digcat> re axels comments, how will transactions be handled once the bpm engine is external to the repo, do you have any specific checks to cover this ?
2017-11-07 18:27:49 GMT <resplin> Sorry I haven't been online. Lots of sick kiddos this week makes for complex mornings.
2017-11-07 18:28:46 GMT <resplin> digcat AFaust: We plan to provide a way to queue asynchronous REST actions to be executed as a batch / transaction.
2017-11-07 18:29:10 GMT <resplin> yreg: Thanks for the heads up to check out the log.
2017-11-07 18:30:02 GMT <resplin> Two corrections: Even though we would like to remove the embedded Activiti in the next release, we recognize that there are too many dependencies and no smooth way to migrate a workflow. So it's going to stay around.
2017-11-07 18:30:05 GMT <AFaust> Asynchrnonous REST actions are not sufficient. I was talking about transactionality on a complex use case level. E.g. external process engine triggering an update on ECM repository, which then calls out-of-process extension which might have to do additional updates to ECM repo...
2017-11-07 18:30:21 GMT <resplin> 2. Share does still depend on the embedded Activiti for the invite service. So instead of completely removing it, we'll just stop using it for workflow.
2017-11-07 18:31:50 GMT <resplin> AFaust: Understood. There are a lot of use cases that need to be covered as we move from in-process extensions to external integrations.
2017-11-07 18:32:34 GMT <AFaust> Just don't go the typical American / Silicon Valley way of doing a MVP and then taking years to make it usable...
2017-11-07 18:32:45 GMT <digcat> hehe
2017-11-07 18:32:47 GMT <resplin> That is the Alfresco way!
2017-11-07 18:32:55 GMT <AFaust> ^^ We know...
2017-11-07 18:32:57 GMT <digcat> sadly :(
2017-11-07 18:33:05 GMT <resplin> Seriously though, we recognize this is a long road.
2017-11-07 18:33:30 GMT <digcat> that roadmap makes pretty depressing reading for community imho
2017-11-07 18:33:34 GMT <resplin> But transactional operations are a key use case we recognize we have to meet.
2017-11-07 18:33:42 GMT <resplin> digcat: Why is that?
2017-11-07 18:33:51 GMT <digcat> the features disappearing
2017-11-07 18:33:59 GMT <digcat> and then what new features to come to community?
2017-11-07 18:34:44 GMT <resplin> What do you mean? Almost everything on that roadmap is expected to be open source.
2017-11-07 18:35:11 GMT <resplin> The only things disappearing are Web Quick Start, multi-tenancy, and CIFS.
2017-11-07 18:35:25 GMT <digcat> imap going, smb going, multi tenancy, cifs, wqs
2017-11-07 18:35:29 GMT <digcat> share
2017-11-07 18:36:06 GMT <resplin> The plan is for IMAP to be replaced with a different implementation. That new implementation might have a scalability component that is proprietary, but the core functionality is expected to stay open.
2017-11-07 18:36:32 GMT <resplin> Share is going to stick around, but we have been focused on ADF which represents a massive amount of open source development.
2017-11-07 18:36:54 GMT <resplin> SMB / CIFS is a shame, but we've gone through the options on that one.
2017-11-07 18:37:10 GMT <resplin> And I have a hard time finding anyone impacted by WQS and multi-tenancy.
2017-11-07 18:38:20 GMT <resplin> I can understand concerns that we aren't moving fast enough. But we aren't killing loads of stuff. Nor have we reduced our ratio of open source development.
2017-11-07 18:38:52 GMT <digcat> ill reread your roadmap, i give you a +1 for laying it out
2017-11-07 18:39:25 GMT <resplin> I admit that there are not many details on most of those items.
2017-11-07 18:39:35 GMT <resplin> We still have a lot of stuff to figure out.
2017-11-07 18:40:13 GMT <digcat> yes, lots of change happening
2017-11-07 18:40:13 GMT <resplin> For now we have been focused on incorporating feedback on the REST APIs (tons of feedback) and planning the library upgrades that are going to break everything.
2017-11-07 18:40:29 GMT <resplin> And we have been working on the container stuff.
2017-11-07 18:40:29 GMT <digcat> yes, thats a huge job,
2017-11-07 18:40:51 GMT <resplin> Of course, that's what the team has been doing. I've mostly been reviewing DevCon papers and sweating about how we are going to decide between so many excellent proposals!
2017-11-07 18:41:02 GMT * resplin makes a public statement
2017-11-07 18:41:05 GMT <digcat> haha, very good
2017-11-07 18:41:22 GMT <resplin> If anyone's proposal was rejected, is is because of AFaust and aborroy. I wanted to take everything!
2017-11-07 18:42:09 GMT <AFaust> resplin's keyboard was just stuck on the highest score we allowed...
2017-11-07 18:43:01 GMT <resplin> Seriously though, it's shaping up to be a great conference. It's been fun to work with Angel and Axel on the selections.
2017-11-07 18:44:02 GMT <AFaust> resplin: I hope the team is getting used to library upgrades breaking everything. It may be a fun 2018 for Alfresco to ensure they continue to have at least one publicly supported Java version in the supported platform stack...
2017-11-07 18:45:10 GMT <AFaust> And I hope you have been made aware that Oracle is putting more pressure on you with the new JDK release cycle / model
2017-11-07 18:45:57 GMT <resplin> I was aware that Oracle had moved more of the governance to the Eclipse Foundation, but I don't yet understand the implications for our usage of Java.
2017-11-07 18:46:19 GMT <AFaust> 1) Java 8 is currently scheduled for End of Public Updates next September
2017-11-07 18:47:01 GMT <AFaust> 2) Oracle will adopt a 6 month release cycle
2017-11-07 18:47:45 GMT <AFaust> (not talking about the updates we are all used to - these releases will contain new features)
2017-11-07 18:48:01 GMT <resplin> Wow, I hadn't heard either of those items.
2017-11-07 18:48:19 GMT <resplin> Sounds like they are moving more toward a Red Hat model.
2017-11-07 18:50:02 GMT <AFaust> 3) Even Java 9 (current release) will be supported for a short time - it will have End of Public Updates even before Java 8 (current schedule)
2017-11-07 18:50:08 GMT <AFaust> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html
2017-11-07 18:51:07 GMT <AFaust> Java 18.9 should be a long-term support release (3 years)
2017-11-07 18:52:07 GMT * AFaust realises he might have spoiled a nice surprise he could have made in his ligthning talk (if it get's accepted)
2017-11-07 18:53:45 GMT <resplin> I'm certain that many attendees will still find it surprising.
2017-11-07 18:53:53 GMT <resplin> I wasn't aware of these changes.
2017-11-07 18:53:55 GMT <digcat> https://www.infoq.com/news/2017/09/Java6Month
2017-11-07 18:53:56 GMT <alfbot> Title: Java to Move to 6-Monthly Release Cadence (at www.infoq.com)
2017-11-07 18:54:07 GMT <digcat> another read, same stuff with some of the ljc comments,
2017-11-07 18:54:41 GMT <digcat> will the spring 5 changes have an impact as well ?
2017-11-07 18:55:11 GMT <xkahn> resplin: Not sure that's the Red Hat model. Maybe the Fedora model. :)
2017-11-07 18:55:39 GMT <xkahn> or the Canonical model?
2017-11-07 18:55:58 GMT <digcat> https://dzone.com/articles/whats-new-in-spring-framework-5
2017-11-07 18:56:35 GMT <resplin> xkahn: By Red Hat model, I mean fast-moving open source upstream, with a commercial offering built on long term support.
2017-11-07 18:56:43 GMT <resplin> So the Fedora / RHEL model.
2017-11-07 18:56:56 GMT * xkahn nods
2017-11-07 18:56:57 GMT <resplin> But I made that statement before looking into the details of the new Java policy.
2017-11-07 18:57:18 GMT <resplin> It just seems like Oracle is searching for a way to make Java profitable.
2017-11-07 18:58:28 GMT <AFaust> And to break from the feature paralysis that a too large, planned release entails
2017-11-07 18:59:07 GMT <AFaust> Though in a typical, modern IT spin, they immediately go overboard to the other extreme...
2017-11-07 19:24:22 GMT *** mmccarthy1 is now known as mmccarthy
The other logs are at http://esplins.org/hash_alfresco