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Daily Log for #alfresco

2017-11-07 07:10:40 GMT <twen> good morning

2017-11-07 07:15:51 GMT <digcat> morning twen

2017-11-07 07:16:13 GMT <twen> o/

2017-11-07 07:37:47 GMT <yreg> Good morning

2017-11-07 07:39:24 GMT <Tichodroma> good morning

2017-11-07 08:06:46 GMT *** ChanServ sets mode: +o fcorti

2017-11-07 08:07:53 GMT *** fcorti changes topic to "Alfresco discussion and collaboration. Stick around a few hours after asking a question. Logs: http://chat.alfresco.com Channel help: https://community.alfresco.com/ Official support for Enterprise subscribers: http://support.alfresco.com. Next event is Office Hours, the 17th of November, on embedding Alfresco using the OEM Program: https://youtu.be/Mf3QnIBEuSU."

2017-11-07 08:31:29 GMT <DarkStar1> Good morning everyone

2017-11-07 09:33:28 GMT <hiten> Hey There

2017-11-07 09:34:55 GMT <hiten> @AFaust - I applied alwaysApply tag to my share header customisation but it didn't seem to be working. I checked other post also ans people are facing this issue. I can't find the solution for this. Any idea what needs to be done.

2017-11-07 09:36:49 GMT <AFaust> I don't know what to tell you - it works perfectly everytime I use it. e.g.: https://github.com/Acosix/alfresco-site-hierarchy/blob/master/share/src/main/globalConfig/site-data/extensions/acosix-site-hierarchy-extension.xml#L35

2017-11-07 09:36:50 GMT <alfbot> Title: alfresco-site-hierarchy/acosix-site-hierarchy-extension.xml at master · Acosix/alfresco-site-hierarchy · GitHub (at github.com)

2017-11-07 10:18:19 GMT <hiten> does the target package has any role to play as to why the applyAlways is not working

2017-11-07 10:18:40 GMT <hiten> yours - <targetPackageRoot>org.alfresco.share.pages</targetPackageRoot>

2017-11-07 10:18:51 GMT <hiten> mine - <targetPackageRoot>org.alfresco.share.header</targetPackageRoot>

2017-11-07 10:44:32 GMT <douglascrp> good morning

2017-11-07 11:27:09 GMT <AFaust> ~later tell hiten: Yes, of course the targetPackageRoot is important to define which Alfresco web scripts are affected. I.e. for faceted search you'd want to affect the faceted search page web script

2017-11-07 11:27:09 GMT <alfbot> AFaust: The operation succeeded.

2017-11-07 11:44:25 GMT <angelborroy> anyone have tried that FINGERPRINT SOLR feature?

2017-11-07 11:44:39 GMT <angelborroy> it looks like it has some problems with SSL

2017-11-07 11:44:52 GMT <angelborroy> I can’t get it working

2017-11-07 11:59:48 GMT <angelborroy> It looks like there is a MINHASH SOLR field and it has values inside

2017-11-07 11:59:56 GMT <angelborroy> but my FINGERPRINT query is not working

2017-11-07 12:00:24 GMT <AFaust> Haven't tried it yet.

2017-11-07 12:00:44 GMT <AFaust> From what I've read so far I fear the FINGERPRINT feature may be too simplistic / naive...

2017-11-07 12:01:46 GMT <angelborroy> I found a new field at SOLR core schema

2017-11-07 12:01:54 GMT <angelborroy> it looks a hash of the document

2017-11-07 12:02:05 GMT <angelborroy> It’s called MINHASH

2017-11-07 12:02:34 GMT <angelborroy> In theory, you can use FINGERPRINT:”uuid” to retrieve documents with the same MINHASH from FTS queries

2017-11-07 12:02:58 GMT <angelborroy> it should be enough for my use case

2017-11-07 12:03:02 GMT <angelborroy> if it works

2017-11-07 12:17:40 GMT <danric> Hi all.

2017-11-07 12:22:02 GMT <danric> Someone has experienced solr 6 tracker skipping a lot of transactions which are not mentioned neither in unindexed count and error count? Is it possible that stopping alfresco while solr6 tracker full reindex is running can cause an issue like many transaction are missing from the index?

2017-11-07 12:24:24 GMT <angelborroy> danric it should not happen

2017-11-07 12:24:51 GMT <angelborroy> probably SOLR is skipping transactions if there is not content to index involved in that transactions

2017-11-07 12:35:58 GMT <angelborroy> AFaust probably I’m stupid, but I can’t get it working

2017-11-07 12:36:18 GMT <angelborroy> AFaust I’ll try later with a brand new Docker SOLR 6

2017-11-07 12:36:20 GMT <AFaust> I vote for the other, improbable option...

2017-11-07 12:36:58 GMT <AFaust> that the feature may simple not work without some undocumented magic

2017-11-07 12:37:11 GMT <angelborroy> probably

2017-11-07 12:37:29 GMT <angelborroy> I’ll share my findings if I cast the right spell

2017-11-07 12:38:00 GMT <danric> I don't know which is the cause but the tracker skipped many transaction without errors.

2017-11-07 12:39:18 GMT <danric> doing a reindex just on a transaction (which was not indexed) fixed that transaction

2017-11-07 12:40:53 GMT <danric> sorry, the reindex was made by nodeid, not by transaction

2017-11-07 12:42:04 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, have you seen the suzuky's blog posts and video on the topic?

2017-11-07 12:42:18 GMT <douglascrp> suzuki, not sure about the spelling

2017-11-07 12:43:36 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, sorry, it was Andy, not Suzuky

2017-11-07 12:43:36 GMT <douglascrp> https://community.alfresco.com/people/andy1/blog/2017/05/12/document-fingerprints

2017-11-07 12:43:37 GMT <alfbot> Title: Document Fingerprints | Alfresco Community (at community.alfresco.com)

2017-11-07 12:51:05 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, and this one was the tech talk live https://youtu.be/3u8UpgZTNFk

2017-11-07 12:51:18 GMT <douglascrp> but I guess you know those already

2017-11-07 12:52:26 GMT <mtsiak> hi all. apart from the listed ports in alfresco documentation (e.g. http://docs.alfresco.com/5.0/concepts/port-number-defaults.html), we detect some more related to tomcat's java process,e.g. 9010, 37676, 9998. Where can i find the purpose of those ports and config them?

2017-11-07 12:52:28 GMT <alfbot> Title: Default port numbers and services | Alfresco Documentation (at docs.alfresco.com)

2017-11-07 12:56:36 GMT <AFaust> mtsiak: None of these ports ring a bell for me. You should be aware that for every connection Alfresco / Tomcat opens to another service (i.e. DB), a random local TCP client port will typically be established. So it is important to know, where these ports connect to (unless they are set to "listen" mode)

2017-11-07 12:56:47 GMT <AFaust> Without a proper netstat report, it will be hard to tell...

2017-11-07 12:58:45 GMT <mtsiak> AFaust they are set to listen. e.g. tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:9010 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 28888/java

2017-11-07 12:59:06 GMT <mtsiak> and we do have a local database for the alfresco.

2017-11-07 12:59:58 GMT <AFaust> Also, if you have customised anything with regards to the JVM parameters or Tomcat server.xml ("customised" = have different from what the installer provides), it would also be important to know

2017-11-07 13:04:14 GMT <danric> https://issues.alfresco.com/jira/browse/SEARCH-303

2017-11-07 13:04:56 GMT <danric> to confirm that certain behaviors can be possible.

2017-11-07 13:24:23 GMT <angelborroy> I’m trying to find the “FINGERPRINT” in that YouTube

2017-11-07 13:30:11 GMT <mtsiak> AFaust ok, 9998 and 9100 are related to the remote jconsole that i had forgot that i had enabled. So i quess that 37676 could be related to the local mariadb?

2017-11-07 13:34:38 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, I may be mistaken about the video

2017-11-07 13:34:42 GMT <douglascrp> sorry if that is the case

2017-11-07 13:34:49 GMT <douglascrp> but I am almost sure it was that one

2017-11-07 13:34:56 GMT <angelborroy> douglascrp no, it’s the one

2017-11-07 13:35:04 GMT <angelborroy> douglascrp but it is too large

2017-11-07 13:35:14 GMT <douglascrp> I even remember he had some problems during the demo

2017-11-07 13:46:42 GMT <angelborroy> 48:00 - 50:00 FINGERPRINT is not working :D

2017-11-07 13:46:56 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, yes, that one :D

2017-11-07 13:47:21 GMT <douglascrp> but if I am not wrong, there is another blog post or video where he shows what was wrong

2017-11-07 13:47:30 GMT <douglascrp> but I could not find that information to share with you

2017-11-07 14:00:08 GMT <angelborroy> douglascrp anyway, I don’t feel this is a reliable feature

2017-11-07 14:01:19 GMT <angelborroy> The MINHASH is the same for cm:invite-email_es.html.ftl and cm:invite-email_de.html.ftl

2017-11-07 14:03:15 GMT <angelborroy> so I’m going to forget all about this “new” feature and re-use my old hash calculation strategy

2017-11-07 14:03:46 GMT <angelborroy> AFaust definitively “fingerprint” is not what I expected

2017-11-07 14:04:12 GMT <AFaust> I am not surprised

2017-11-07 14:05:11 GMT <angelborroy> It doesn’t work, but when it works is a feature to find similarities

2017-11-07 14:07:07 GMT <angelborroy> and a template in German is detected as similar to a template in Spanish

2017-11-07 14:07:17 GMT <angelborroy> which for me is not “so similar"

2017-11-07 14:08:22 GMT <AFaust> Well, a "template" - you mean an FTL one? Well, most of the structure should be pretty identical, so I can see why it comes up as similar

2017-11-07 14:08:32 GMT <angelborroy> yep

2017-11-07 14:08:58 GMT <angelborroy> but in the end there are many differences inside

2017-11-07 14:09:08 GMT <angelborroy> probably only 50% of the text is shared

2017-11-07 14:09:09 GMT <AFaust> But given how they treat LocaleA != LocaleB in other areas of search, it sure is surprising they treat it as similar there...

2017-11-07 14:09:34 GMT <angelborroy> I’m going to explore this approach https://www.parashift.com.au/2015/11/23/detecting-duplicates-and-related-items-in-alfresco/

2017-11-07 14:09:35 GMT <alfbot> Title: Detecting Duplicates and Related Items in Alfresco - ParashiftParashift (at www.parashift.com.au)

2017-11-07 14:09:38 GMT <AFaust> I would have though that any other node not in the same locale be ignored, just as the regular search does

2017-11-07 14:09:41 GMT <angelborroy> using a “dedupe”

2017-11-07 14:10:07 GMT <angelborroy> it’s based in MD5, which can be enough

2017-11-07 14:12:13 GMT <angelborroy> any this is not synchronous, as it’s based in SOLR

2017-11-07 14:12:39 GMT <angelborroy> nope, I have to use my old hashing behaviour approach

2017-11-07 14:26:15 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, What's your use case ?

2017-11-07 14:26:36 GMT <yreg> Are you trying to avoid having duplicate content ?

2017-11-07 14:26:44 GMT <angelborroy> yreg same as ever, if a user includes a duplicated content on a folder then… blah, blah, blah

2017-11-07 14:27:06 GMT <angelborroy> I was just trying to use the new features for that

2017-11-07 14:27:15 GMT <yreg> or are you trying to find identical documents to delete dupes ?

2017-11-07 14:27:21 GMT <angelborroy> nope

2017-11-07 14:27:24 GMT <angelborroy> is on uploading

2017-11-07 14:27:29 GMT <yreg> alright

2017-11-07 14:27:41 GMT <angelborroy> I should use AFaust dedup ContentStore, I know

2017-11-07 14:27:51 GMT <yreg> How did you try the fingerprint query ?

2017-11-07 14:27:51 GMT <angelborroy> but it’s not my requirement now

2017-11-07 14:28:04 GMT <angelborroy> FINGERPRINT:’uuid’

2017-11-07 14:28:07 GMT <yreg> did you try it with _100_100

2017-11-07 14:28:08 GMT <angelborroy> FINGERPRINT:’db-id’

2017-11-07 14:28:24 GMT <angelborroy> it does not work

2017-11-07 14:28:31 GMT <yreg> try FINGERPRINT:’db-id_99_99’ for instance

2017-11-07 14:28:32 GMT <angelborroy> so I could just try it in SOLR part

2017-11-07 14:28:35 GMT <angelborroy> not in Alfresco

2017-11-07 14:28:55 GMT <angelborroy> I tested also FINGERPRINT:’uuid_80_20'

2017-11-07 14:28:57 GMT <angelborroy> with no luck

2017-11-07 14:30:24 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, you know that basically ready Get me documents with 80% overlap with 20% probablity ?

2017-11-07 14:30:55 GMT <angelborroy> yep, I read that

2017-11-07 14:31:24 GMT <yreg> try FINGERPRINT:’uuid_90_90' I would be amazed if you still get content from other locales then

2017-11-07 14:31:52 GMT <angelborroy> nope, I’m not obtaining results from FINGERPRINT

2017-11-07 14:31:58 GMT <angelborroy> It does not work for me

2017-11-07 14:32:06 GMT <angelborroy> I was inspecting MINHASH values at SOLR core

2017-11-07 14:32:21 GMT <angelborroy> and both locale templates had the same MINHASH value

2017-11-07 14:36:42 GMT <yreg> aha! that's a shame

2017-11-07 14:39:18 GMT <yreg> fcorti, is there a reason why this does not seem to be actively maintained ? https://community.alfresco.com/docs/DOC-5429-live

2017-11-07 14:39:20 GMT <alfbot> Title: Tech Talk Live | Alfresco Community (at community.alfresco.com)

2017-11-07 14:40:43 GMT <fcorti> hi yreg... yes, the priorities. :-)

2017-11-07 15:05:35 GMT <fcorti> ok yreg... I did not resist... I updated the page :-)

2017-11-07 15:07:04 GMT <yreg> hehe, thanks

2017-11-07 15:07:37 GMT <yreg> FYI it is my first instinct to go search for content on that page..

2017-11-07 15:07:45 GMT <angelborroy> douglascrp is uploader-plus working for 201707?

2017-11-07 15:07:56 GMT <yreg> also to refer newbies and colleagues to it

2017-11-07 15:09:53 GMT <angelborroy> fcorti I sent you a present for that! :D

2017-11-07 15:09:56 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, last time I checked it had some issues

2017-11-07 15:10:15 GMT <angelborroy> ok, I’m going to try anyway

2017-11-07 15:10:27 GMT <angelborroy> probably my use case is very basic

2017-11-07 15:10:29 GMT <fcorti> angelborroy :-D

2017-11-07 15:10:44 GMT <fcorti> Thanks you... I'll send you my bank account

2017-11-07 15:10:46 GMT <fcorti> :-D

2017-11-07 15:11:14 GMT <fcorti> (jokes apart, thank you for keeping an eye on this and let me know ;-) )

2017-11-07 15:11:20 GMT <angelborroy> -= THIS MESSAGE NOT LOGGED =-

2017-11-07 15:11:53 GMT <angelborroy> ups, I think I failed the (nolog) Sorry for that

2017-11-07 15:12:02 GMT <fcorti> no prob

2017-11-07 15:12:07 GMT <fcorti> it's not a secret

2017-11-07 15:12:22 GMT <fcorti> :-D yes... and like a real italian I'll open a pizzeria

2017-11-07 15:12:32 GMT <yreg> https://github.com/softwareloop/uploader-plus/issues/119

2017-11-07 15:12:32 GMT <fcorti> Da Francesco!

2017-11-07 15:12:33 GMT <alfbot> Title: UP is not working properly with Alfresco 5.2 · Issue #119 · softwareloop/uploader-plus · GitHub (at github.com)

2017-11-07 15:15:45 GMT <angelborroy> yreg it works for me

2017-11-07 15:15:51 GMT <angelborroy> but I’m using 201707

2017-11-07 15:16:35 GMT <yreg> Glad to hear that

2017-11-07 15:18:15 GMT <angelborroy> I’m trying to solve another problem

2017-11-07 15:18:36 GMT <angelborroy> To keep metadata traking for version 1.0

2017-11-07 15:19:02 GMT <angelborroy> As Alfresco creates 1.0 just after the document has been uploaded, no custom property is associated to this version

2017-11-07 15:19:14 GMT <angelborroy> I should say “Share” creates

2017-11-07 15:19:29 GMT <angelborroy> uploader-plus does not solve that

2017-11-07 15:34:45 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, uploader-plus actually imports OOTB upload webscript and just adds the metadata afterwards

2017-11-07 15:34:55 GMT <angelborroy> yes, I’m seeing that

2017-11-07 15:35:07 GMT <angelborroy> I’m modifying it to create the version AFTER updating properties

2017-11-07 15:35:09 GMT <angelborroy> It should work

2017-11-07 15:37:02 GMT <angelborroy> main problem is that I don’t know how to make this without overwritting something

2017-11-07 15:37:47 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, I know about some issues with share 5.2

2017-11-07 15:38:12 GMT <angelborroy> very relevant?

2017-11-07 15:39:12 GMT <douglascrp> angelborroy, drag and drop not working, for example

2017-11-07 15:39:25 GMT <angelborroy> drag and drop is working for me

2017-11-07 15:39:27 GMT <douglascrp> but I have not tried it myself to see what more can be broken

2017-11-07 15:39:30 GMT <angelborroy> have you tried with 201707?

2017-11-07 15:39:30 GMT <douglascrp> really?

2017-11-07 15:39:34 GMT <angelborroy> yep

2017-11-07 15:39:39 GMT <douglascrp> well, so I have no idea

2017-11-07 15:39:50 GMT <angelborroy> But you all are very tricky with that addon

2017-11-07 15:39:58 GMT <angelborroy> This is evil: https://github.com/softwareloop/uploader-plus/blob/master/repo/src/main/amp/config/alfresco/templates/webscripts/com/softwareloop/uploader-plus/upload.post.js#L1

2017-11-07 15:40:00 GMT <alfbot> Title: uploader-plus/upload.post.js at master · softwareloop/uploader-plus · GitHub (at github.com)

2017-11-07 15:40:16 GMT <angelborroy> It makes me very hard to test my use case :(

2017-11-07 15:44:17 GMT <angelborroy> anyway I have to overwrite upload.post.js, so...

2017-11-07 15:47:33 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, it is made like that to permit it to work across multiple alfresco versions

2017-11-07 15:47:42 GMT <angelborroy> yep, I know

2017-11-07 15:47:55 GMT <angelborroy> just only trying to imagine how to put it all together

2017-11-07 15:48:18 GMT <yreg> I assume you can replace that call with the entire original upload webscript content, and loose the checkin line and call it at the end after metadata has been applied instead

2017-11-07 15:49:14 GMT <angelborroy> this was my initial idea

2017-11-07 15:49:19 GMT <angelborroy> but this is a bad idea

2017-11-07 15:49:26 GMT <angelborroy> so I’m trying to find another path

2017-11-07 15:52:25 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, https://github.com/Alfresco/alfresco-remote-api/blob/develop/src/main/resources/alfresco/templates/webscripts/org/alfresco/repository/upload/upload.post.js#L481

2017-11-07 15:52:26 GMT <alfbot> Title: alfresco-remote-api/upload.post.js at develop · Alfresco/alfresco-remote-api · GitHub (at github.com)

2017-11-07 15:52:59 GMT <yreg> I think the safest path you have is to disable autoversioning

2017-11-07 15:53:33 GMT <yreg> and then create a new behaviour to add versioning automatically on transaction commit instead of every event

2017-11-07 15:53:42 GMT <yreg> that's the cleanest path I can think of

2017-11-07 15:53:49 GMT <angelborroy> Interesting

2017-11-07 15:53:52 GMT <angelborroy> Let me see

2017-11-07 15:54:53 GMT <yreg> https://github.com/Alfresco/alfresco-remote-api/blob/develop/src/main/resources/alfresco/templates/webscripts/org/alfresco/repository/upload/upload.post.config.xml

2017-11-07 15:54:54 GMT <alfbot> Title: alfresco-remote-api/upload.post.config.xml at develop · Alfresco/alfresco-remote-api · GitHub (at github.com)

2017-11-07 15:55:19 GMT <angelborroy> wow

2017-11-07 15:55:21 GMT <angelborroy> this is not easy

2017-11-07 15:55:35 GMT <angelborroy> as I’m overriding for everyone

2017-11-07 15:55:47 GMT <angelborroy> I’m tryint go overwrite only for uploader-plus

2017-11-07 16:02:56 GMT <douglascrp> no, I have not even tried to simulate the reported errors

2017-11-07 16:07:11 GMT * AFaust LOLs at some sections of the "day in the life of a quickstarter"...

2017-11-07 16:10:36 GMT <fcorti> AFaust: which ones in particular?

2017-11-07 16:10:54 GMT <AFaust> "A deployment that may typically have taken days and weeks to manually complete now only takes minutes"

2017-11-07 16:11:15 GMT <angelborroy> In Spain we say: “poetic license”

2017-11-07 16:11:15 GMT <AFaust> "days and weeks"???

2017-11-07 16:11:23 GMT <angelborroy> or simple huge exageration

2017-11-07 16:12:17 GMT <fcorti> yeah, maybe "too much"

2017-11-07 16:13:42 GMT <angelborroy> oh, it looks like “poetic license” is also used in English :)

2017-11-07 16:21:37 GMT <digcat> hi all, was just reading https://community.alfresco.com/community/bpm/blog

2017-11-07 16:21:39 GMT <alfbot> Title: Alfresco Process Services & Activiti (... | Alfresco Community (at community.alfresco.com)

2017-11-07 16:21:55 GMT <digcat> was wondering if anyone knows difference between activiti and activiti cloud?

2017-11-07 16:22:05 GMT <digcat> and yes i get cloud might mean running in the cloud

2017-11-07 16:22:27 GMT <digcat> but was wondering if its another code base

2017-11-07 16:23:36 GMT <digcat> ahh ok,

2017-11-07 16:23:42 GMT <digcat> so just introducing the word cloud

2017-11-07 16:23:46 GMT <digcat> im assuming

2017-11-07 16:23:47 GMT <digcat> https://hub.docker.com/r/activiti/activiti-cloud-sso-idm/

2017-11-07 16:24:55 GMT <yreg> digcat, https://activiti.gitbooks.io/activiti-7-developers-guide/content/introduction.html

2017-11-07 16:24:56 GMT <alfbot> Title: What is Activiti Cloud? · Activiti 7 & Activiti Cloud Developers Guide (at activiti.gitbooks.io)

2017-11-07 16:25:11 GMT <digcat> ah ha

2017-11-07 16:25:17 GMT <digcat> thanks yreg

2017-11-07 16:27:11 GMT <yreg> digcat, I have been following activiti closely lately and there seems to be a great deal of efforts there

2017-11-07 16:28:16 GMT <angelborroy> yref douglascrp AFaust I’ve modified uploader plus to update metadata before versioning

2017-11-07 16:28:30 GMT <angelborroy> Not sure yet on how to make it configurable and safer

2017-11-07 16:28:33 GMT <digcat> yes, i see that they plan to remove embedded activiti from the acs, so would make sense to get activiti up to speed,

2017-11-07 16:28:42 GMT <angelborroy> Do you think is a nice contribution for the addon?

2017-11-07 16:28:43 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, I would be interested in reviewing that

2017-11-07 16:29:10 GMT <yreg> digcat, where did you see that ?

2017-11-07 16:29:11 GMT <angelborroy> by now just overriding the whole upload.post.js thing

2017-11-07 16:29:46 GMT <yreg> I can understand if embedded activiti does not get love anymore (same case as share) but I would not expect Alfresco to take it out

2017-11-07 16:29:50 GMT <digcat> angelborroy you mod sounds a better idea

2017-11-07 16:29:51 GMT <digcat> https://community.alfresco.com/docs/DOC-1085-alfresco-ecm-product-roadmap

2017-11-07 16:29:53 GMT <alfbot> Title: Content Repository Roadmap 2017 | Alfresco Community (at community.alfresco.com)

2017-11-07 16:29:59 GMT <digcat> Replace the embedded Activiti with the stand-alone Activiti

2017-11-07 16:29:59 GMT <digcat> Allow people to use the Activiti designers for "workflow", and make it easy to upgrade for full "process services"

2017-11-07 16:29:59 GMT <digcat> This will require re-implementing workflows to use out-of-process Activiti APIs.

2017-11-07 16:30:26 GMT <angelborroy> digcat yes, they are extracting Activiti from Alfresco

2017-11-07 16:30:43 GMT <angelborroy> digcat probably next ACS release will not include Activiti Engine inside

2017-11-07 16:30:57 GMT <digcat> yep

2017-11-07 16:31:14 GMT <yreg> extracting != removing :)

2017-11-07 16:31:15 GMT <digcat> so share will be broken from then on

2017-11-07 16:31:17 GMT <digcat> ?

2017-11-07 16:31:27 GMT <digcat> or you think it will be refactored

2017-11-07 16:31:32 GMT <angelborroy> yreg sorry, I meant removing

2017-11-07 16:31:42 GMT <yreg> angelborroy, doesn't site invites rely on activiti ? among other OOTB features ?

2017-11-07 16:31:43 GMT <angelborroy> Why is going to be Share broken?

2017-11-07 16:32:04 GMT <angelborroy> I think is only for the inviting system, which was “hidden” in last releases

2017-11-07 16:32:10 GMT <yreg> I would highly doubt they simply remove it before depricating it for a couple of releases first !

2017-11-07 16:33:52 GMT <yreg> embedde jBPM was there for ages before it finally got deleted

2017-11-07 16:34:03 GMT <digcat> the simple workflows?

2017-11-07 16:34:48 GMT <digcat> will they work without embedded activiti?

2017-11-07 16:34:58 GMT <angelborroy> it looks like “yes"

2017-11-07 16:35:15 GMT <angelborroy> Share works without Activiti, no many features rely on it

2017-11-07 16:35:38 GMT <angelborroy> As you know I’m not modelling workflows inside Alfresco, so it’s the right path IMO

2017-11-07 16:35:51 GMT <angelborroy> But it should provoke many headaches to many people

2017-11-07 16:35:53 GMT <digcat> ahh, i thought the embedded activiti was used by share

2017-11-07 16:36:06 GMT <digcat> i agree, the simpler the stack the better

2017-11-07 16:36:25 GMT <digcat> and makes total sense to have external BPM engine, at least then easier to scale

2017-11-07 16:37:03 GMT <yreg> digcat, makes sense

2017-11-07 16:38:48 GMT <yreg> digcat, angelborroy I might mis-expressed my thoughts: I was saying that I do not expect embedded workflows to get special attention/upgrade to a more recent activiti ... I expect it to be on life support (same as share) at least for a while before being eventually dumped

2017-11-07 16:39:10 GMT <angelborroy> yreg it makes sense, yes

2017-11-07 16:39:12 GMT <digcat> yes

2017-11-07 17:31:20 GMT <yreg> ~later tell resplin ping

2017-11-07 17:31:20 GMT <alfbot> yreg: The operation succeeded.

2017-11-07 17:50:41 GMT <AFaust> digcat: "The simpler the stack the better" - said the 50 year old office worker putting paper files in a folder...

2017-11-07 17:52:53 GMT <AFaust> Though easier to scale if external BPM, I wonder sometimes if people completely forget about transactionality requirements. External process engine, external extension points, micro-services etc... I am not looking forward to managing the many constellations of partially consistent state between multiple mini silo-applications

2017-11-07 17:56:08 GMT <yreg> +1 +1 AFaust

2017-11-07 17:58:18 GMT <yreg> AFaust, I know that sych *transactionability is possible over SOAP calls, I doubt it would be possible over REST calls

2017-11-07 18:00:07 GMT <yreg> **such

2017-11-07 18:02:29 GMT <douglascrp> yreg, about "I can understand if embedded activiti does not get love anymore (same case as share) but I would not expect Alfresco to take it out"

2017-11-07 18:02:38 GMT <douglascrp> I saw that is in the road map

2017-11-07 18:02:55 GMT <douglascrp> ah, digcat posted the link :D

2017-11-07 18:03:01 GMT <douglascrp> I am late

2017-11-07 18:03:30 GMT <douglascrp> AFaust, "LOLs at some sections of the "day in the life of a quickstarter"

2017-11-07 18:03:33 GMT <douglascrp> what is that?

2017-11-07 18:06:45 GMT <AFaust> https://community.alfresco.com/blogs/devops/2017/11/06/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-quickstarter?platform=hootsuite

2017-11-07 18:06:46 GMT <alfbot> Title: A day in the life of a Quickstarter! | Alfresco Community (at community.alfresco.com)

2017-11-07 18:07:04 GMT <douglascrp> AFaust, tks... that is a new one

2017-11-07 18:10:04 GMT <digcat> hey afaust of course you raise very valid points, the way transactionality will work under a micro services architecture is yet to be clear, so much change, it would be good to nut out any use cases which would illustrate those issues

2017-11-07 18:12:37 GMT <digcat> ~later tell resplin re axels comments, how will transactions be handled once the bpm engine is external to the repo, do you have any specific checks to cover this ?

2017-11-07 18:12:37 GMT <alfbot> digcat: The operation succeeded.

2017-11-07 18:19:22 GMT <digcat> tbh i think although can imagine how nasty problems around transactionabilty between disperate processes engines and repos, i suspect they have bigger issues to overcome

2017-11-07 18:26:21 GMT <alfbot> resplin: Sent 55 minutes ago: <yreg> ping

2017-11-07 18:26:22 GMT <alfbot> resplin: Sent 13 minutes ago: <digcat> re axels comments, how will transactions be handled once the bpm engine is external to the repo, do you have any specific checks to cover this ?

2017-11-07 18:27:49 GMT <resplin> Sorry I haven't been online. Lots of sick kiddos this week makes for complex mornings.

2017-11-07 18:28:46 GMT <resplin> digcat AFaust: We plan to provide a way to queue asynchronous REST actions to be executed as a batch / transaction.

2017-11-07 18:29:10 GMT <resplin> yreg: Thanks for the heads up to check out the log.

2017-11-07 18:30:02 GMT <resplin> Two corrections: Even though we would like to remove the embedded Activiti in the next release, we recognize that there are too many dependencies and no smooth way to migrate a workflow. So it's going to stay around.

2017-11-07 18:30:05 GMT <AFaust> Asynchrnonous REST actions are not sufficient. I was talking about transactionality on a complex use case level. E.g. external process engine triggering an update on ECM repository, which then calls out-of-process extension which might have to do additional updates to ECM repo...

2017-11-07 18:30:21 GMT <resplin> 2. Share does still depend on the embedded Activiti for the invite service. So instead of completely removing it, we'll just stop using it for workflow.

2017-11-07 18:31:50 GMT <resplin> AFaust: Understood. There are a lot of use cases that need to be covered as we move from in-process extensions to external integrations.

2017-11-07 18:32:34 GMT <AFaust> Just don't go the typical American / Silicon Valley way of doing a MVP and then taking years to make it usable...

2017-11-07 18:32:45 GMT <digcat> hehe

2017-11-07 18:32:47 GMT <resplin> That is the Alfresco way!

2017-11-07 18:32:55 GMT <AFaust> ^^ We know...

2017-11-07 18:32:57 GMT <digcat> sadly :(

2017-11-07 18:33:05 GMT <resplin> Seriously though, we recognize this is a long road.

2017-11-07 18:33:30 GMT <digcat> that roadmap makes pretty depressing reading for community imho

2017-11-07 18:33:34 GMT <resplin> But transactional operations are a key use case we recognize we have to meet.

2017-11-07 18:33:42 GMT <resplin> digcat: Why is that?

2017-11-07 18:33:51 GMT <digcat> the features disappearing

2017-11-07 18:33:59 GMT <digcat> and then what new features to come to community?

2017-11-07 18:34:44 GMT <resplin> What do you mean? Almost everything on that roadmap is expected to be open source.

2017-11-07 18:35:11 GMT <resplin> The only things disappearing are Web Quick Start, multi-tenancy, and CIFS.

2017-11-07 18:35:25 GMT <digcat> imap going, smb going, multi tenancy, cifs, wqs

2017-11-07 18:35:29 GMT <digcat> share

2017-11-07 18:36:06 GMT <resplin> The plan is for IMAP to be replaced with a different implementation. That new implementation might have a scalability component that is proprietary, but the core functionality is expected to stay open.

2017-11-07 18:36:32 GMT <resplin> Share is going to stick around, but we have been focused on ADF which represents a massive amount of open source development.

2017-11-07 18:36:54 GMT <resplin> SMB / CIFS is a shame, but we've gone through the options on that one.

2017-11-07 18:37:10 GMT <resplin> And I have a hard time finding anyone impacted by WQS and multi-tenancy.

2017-11-07 18:38:20 GMT <resplin> I can understand concerns that we aren't moving fast enough. But we aren't killing loads of stuff. Nor have we reduced our ratio of open source development.

2017-11-07 18:38:52 GMT <digcat> ill reread your roadmap, i give you a +1 for laying it out

2017-11-07 18:39:25 GMT <resplin> I admit that there are not many details on most of those items.

2017-11-07 18:39:35 GMT <resplin> We still have a lot of stuff to figure out.

2017-11-07 18:40:13 GMT <digcat> yes, lots of change happening

2017-11-07 18:40:13 GMT <resplin> For now we have been focused on incorporating feedback on the REST APIs (tons of feedback) and planning the library upgrades that are going to break everything.

2017-11-07 18:40:29 GMT <resplin> And we have been working on the container stuff.

2017-11-07 18:40:29 GMT <digcat> yes, thats a huge job,

2017-11-07 18:40:51 GMT <resplin> Of course, that's what the team has been doing. I've mostly been reviewing DevCon papers and sweating about how we are going to decide between so many excellent proposals!

2017-11-07 18:41:02 GMT * resplin makes a public statement

2017-11-07 18:41:05 GMT <digcat> haha, very good

2017-11-07 18:41:22 GMT <resplin> If anyone's proposal was rejected, is is because of AFaust and aborroy. I wanted to take everything!

2017-11-07 18:42:09 GMT <AFaust> resplin's keyboard was just stuck on the highest score we allowed...

2017-11-07 18:43:01 GMT <resplin> Seriously though, it's shaping up to be a great conference. It's been fun to work with Angel and Axel on the selections.

2017-11-07 18:44:02 GMT <AFaust> resplin: I hope the team is getting used to library upgrades breaking everything. It may be a fun 2018 for Alfresco to ensure they continue to have at least one publicly supported Java version in the supported platform stack...

2017-11-07 18:45:10 GMT <AFaust> And I hope you have been made aware that Oracle is putting more pressure on you with the new JDK release cycle / model

2017-11-07 18:45:57 GMT <resplin> I was aware that Oracle had moved more of the governance to the Eclipse Foundation, but I don't yet understand the implications for our usage of Java.

2017-11-07 18:46:19 GMT <AFaust> 1) Java 8 is currently scheduled for End of Public Updates next September

2017-11-07 18:47:01 GMT <AFaust> 2) Oracle will adopt a 6 month release cycle

2017-11-07 18:47:45 GMT <AFaust> (not talking about the updates we are all used to - these releases will contain new features)

2017-11-07 18:48:01 GMT <resplin> Wow, I hadn't heard either of those items.

2017-11-07 18:48:19 GMT <resplin> Sounds like they are moving more toward a Red Hat model.

2017-11-07 18:50:02 GMT <AFaust> 3) Even Java 9 (current release) will be supported for a short time - it will have End of Public Updates even before Java 8 (current schedule)

2017-11-07 18:50:08 GMT <AFaust> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/eol-135779.html

2017-11-07 18:51:07 GMT <AFaust> Java 18.9 should be a long-term support release (3 years)

2017-11-07 18:52:07 GMT * AFaust realises he might have spoiled a nice surprise he could have made in his ligthning talk (if it get's accepted)

2017-11-07 18:53:45 GMT <resplin> I'm certain that many attendees will still find it surprising.

2017-11-07 18:53:53 GMT <resplin> I wasn't aware of these changes.

2017-11-07 18:53:55 GMT <digcat> https://www.infoq.com/news/2017/09/Java6Month

2017-11-07 18:53:56 GMT <alfbot> Title: Java to Move to 6-Monthly Release Cadence (at www.infoq.com)

2017-11-07 18:54:07 GMT <digcat> another read, same stuff with some of the ljc comments,

2017-11-07 18:54:41 GMT <digcat> will the spring 5 changes have an impact as well ?

2017-11-07 18:55:11 GMT <xkahn> resplin: Not sure that's the Red Hat model. Maybe the Fedora model. :)

2017-11-07 18:55:39 GMT <xkahn> or the Canonical model?

2017-11-07 18:55:58 GMT <digcat> https://dzone.com/articles/whats-new-in-spring-framework-5

2017-11-07 18:56:35 GMT <resplin> xkahn: By Red Hat model, I mean fast-moving open source upstream, with a commercial offering built on long term support.

2017-11-07 18:56:43 GMT <resplin> So the Fedora / RHEL model.

2017-11-07 18:56:56 GMT * xkahn nods

2017-11-07 18:56:57 GMT <resplin> But I made that statement before looking into the details of the new Java policy.

2017-11-07 18:57:18 GMT <resplin> It just seems like Oracle is searching for a way to make Java profitable.

2017-11-07 18:58:28 GMT <AFaust> And to break from the feature paralysis that a too large, planned release entails

2017-11-07 18:59:07 GMT <AFaust> Though in a typical, modern IT spin, they immediately go overboard to the other extreme...

2017-11-07 19:24:22 GMT *** mmccarthy1 is now known as mmccarthy

End of Daily Log

The other logs are at http://esplins.org/hash_alfresco