Daily Log for #alfresco IRC Channel

Alfresco discussion and collaboration. Stick around a few hours after asking a question.

Official support for Enterprise subscribers: support.alfresco.com.

Joining the Channel:

Join in the conversation by getting an IRC client and connecting to #alfresco at Freenode. Our you can use the IRC web chat.

More information about the channel is in the wiki.

Getting Help

More help is available in this list of resources.

Daily Log for #alfresco

2018-09-06 08:22:54 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> Hi everyone. Is it possible to run the docker images of the infrastructure alfresco 6 ce under docker for windows? I refer in particular to the management of volumes that require permissions to particular users (ie user solr with uid 1000 or postgres).

2018-09-06 09:44:42 GMT <yreg> @RichetDan AFAIK OOTB images do not have volumes config

2018-09-06 09:45:07 GMT <yreg> Are you referring to keen soft/angelborroy deckerized alfresco ?

2018-09-06 09:48:31 GMT <yreg> In any case, note that docker4windows ships by default with a linux VM where all docker containers will be actually running (except when you switch that default config to run windows containers, but then all alfresco images that I know of are linux based and would not work then)

2018-09-06 09:49:23 GMT <yreg> And so named volumes should be perfectly fine, and have no issues

2018-09-06 09:50:47 GMT <yreg> For bind mounts, I believe you will need to share the drive containing your resources with the docker VM (in docker setting) and then you might need to ssh into your VM and setup proper permissions manually there

2018-09-06 09:52:31 GMT <yreg> Docker is still a painful experiment on windows IMHO (I reckon that they made huge progress, but the experience is still far from being as smooth as it is on nux systems)

2018-09-06 09:52:47 GMT <yreg> In my experience, peop

2018-09-06 09:54:03 GMT <yreg> People developing/working on windows regularly are better off using a remote linux system/k8s cluster for their needs, and probably share that with a whole team

2018-09-06 09:55:40 GMT <yreg> A former employer had 3 high performance servers setup for that need and they were shared among a dozen developers or so (for day to day experiments and operations)

2018-09-06 09:58:12 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> yes @yreg, exactly. I'm taking inspiration from the templates made available by @angelborroy for the development of a template based on docker-compose. Unfortunately, here many companies have full Microsoft infrastructures. From a first test in windows using Docker (configured to use Linux container with hyperv enabled) I found some problems with the volumes but I have not yet had the opportunity to

2018-09-06 09:58:12 GMT <alfresco-discord> go deeper. I wonder if it is a viable path even in windows, stable, performing and reliable or if it is better to rely on a manual installation.

2018-09-06 10:00:29 GMT <yreg> @RichetDan I advise you to convince your clients to switch to linux at least for Alfresco/Solr hosts, if that is a no-option then go for manual installation of alfresco component by component

2018-09-06 10:01:10 GMT <yreg> Running linux containers on windows for production use is not (yet) a wise option IMHO

2018-09-06 10:03:17 GMT <yreg> (That opinion is the result of an evaluation and exercise from 1/1.5 years ago, and I am no longer following up on docker4windows state, things might have changed for the better since then)

2018-09-06 10:06:48 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> I'm having the same feeling. Thank you for the confirmation

2018-09-06 10:07:01 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> I've also tried some tests with k8s but still without luck. I tried with minikube probably with too little memory. However, putting in place a kubernetes infrastructure to test is not so simple for me, I am also looking at RancherOS but here too no results yet. I still have a lot to learn before I get a result that I can offer to customers with k8s. The Alfresco's documentation still seems too

2018-09-06 10:07:02 GMT <alfresco-discord> lacking for people without experience on this technology.

2018-09-06 10:14:49 GMT <robl^> @RichetDan I concur with yreg. Docker is less mature and prone to issues with many Linux based docker images. I've run in to numerous issues recently just trying to run dockerized Alfresco 6 on a Windows laptop while trying to code/test some Alfresco customizations. Under macOS or Linux, it just works and works well.

2018-09-06 10:17:32 GMT <robl^> Sorry, I mean Docker on Windows is less mature. (Need more coffee as I'm still not awake here. It's 5:15am in my part of the globe)

2018-09-06 10:34:25 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> Thank you so much @yreg and @robl^ for sharing your considerations that are helpful to clarify a little the situation on this front where in the company we are facing the firsts experiments in small environments. <@118098694837895173> You're a very early morning man! Here in Italy it's half past twelve and it's finally lunchtime!

2018-09-06 10:34:37 GMT <AFaust> Performance of Alfresco inside Docker on WIndows is far from production-worthy.

2018-09-06 10:36:07 GMT <AFaust> I have an extremely good dev system hardware-wise, but I would argue (without specific measurements) that the performance of Alfresco is at least a magnitude worse when run inside Docker than my regular Windows setup for Alfresco...

2018-09-06 10:37:31 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> Thank you very much

2018-09-06 10:38:27 GMT <AFaust> And that is already considering that even generally speaking, performance on WIndows-based systems is worse than on *nix-systems. Freaking NTFS can make IO a huge pain, especially for SOLR content cache / index...

2018-09-06 10:41:46 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> Of course, unfortunately in many cases here proposing Linux solutions means losing projects. Sad but that's it.

2018-09-06 10:43:50 GMT <yreg> IMHO, in such cases, you suggest and recommend linux but don't really insist on it, just wait for the next production issue, say "I told you so!" And point your finger at windows ;-) that worked well with a couple of clients before

2018-09-06 10:44:33 GMT <yreg> Who were convinced after a few incidents/performance issues to make the switch for their alfresco infra (or at least for solr in one case)

2018-09-06 10:54:27 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> 😂 I don't know how this strategy can be commercially successful, fortunately it's not my field of expertise!

2018-09-06 11:08:00 GMT <alfresco-discord> <MorganP> I did the same, after some time, the client understands

2018-09-06 11:10:06 GMT <AFaust> I would not necessarily have put it like yreg, but indeed, I never "insist" on Linux, but provide a summary of pro/cons, and include some estimates/metrics from experience at what point Windows can become an issue (i.e. "number of SOLR files causing overflow of pre-allocated MFT area"), and then "they" (customer / management) can do their thing and make an informed decision, hopefully weighing / understanding my input...

2018-09-06 11:11:29 GMT <AFaust> I also have had some customers where Windows actually wasn't an issue - but only because their network storage system was the bottleneck (everything virtualised and striped across different types of devices without ability to pin specific apps / guarantee certain level of performance)

2018-09-06 11:11:30 GMT <yreg> AFaust, that's what I meant, though I would probably not go to the same technical depth

2018-09-06 11:12:42 GMT <AFaust> If you want to be able to point fingers later, you need to have provided some information previously that you then can reference as "told you so"

2018-09-06 11:13:18 GMT <yreg> indeed

2018-09-06 12:56:19 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> IMHO by keeping the focus on so deep and technical features, the customer does not understand (most of them even ignore what solr is for example). What he perceives is "alfresco is not reliable on windows" and then the concrete risk is that he chooses another product that simply works on windows (or at least it is what is commercially been told).

2018-09-06 13:07:56 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> However, Linux is always suggested as the first recommended choice.

2018-09-06 13:44:18 GMT <AFaust> @RichetDan: It might depend on the region / area, but I rarely had a customer that did not understand such technical details when presented. In larger orgs, I typically deal with managers from their IT department. So far I only had one customer (admittedly in a 10-employee org) for whom I had to dumb things down to an abstract level.

2018-09-06 13:46:57 GMT <AFaust> But I have also worked in a customer project once (before my time working with Alfresco) where I had to argue against "you can't expect users to know they can select multiple rows by using CTRL + mouse click" or "CRTL + C/V would make our system too hard to use for normal people"

2018-09-06 14:54:54 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> Ok. Organize a technical comparison between operating systems as a deterrent without focusing on Alfresco can certainly be a good approach. But we works mostly with small organizations where the IT department is made up of one or two people who have no experience with Linux and are scared just to hear it mentioned. Despite this, most of our installations are on CentOS but we still have customers for

2018-09-06 14:54:55 GMT <alfresco-discord> whom Linux is not a viable option.

2018-09-06 14:57:35 GMT <alfresco-discord> <RichetDan> I have to say that all our Windows-based installations have sufficiently kept the low load they are subjected to. We even have a customer with Windows 7 on which we have also made strong customizations that still does not intend to migrate. The world is a jungle.

End of Daily Log

The other logs are at http://esplins.org/hash_alfresco