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2019-05-13 11:31:26 GMT <gdeverlant> hi everyone
2019-05-13 11:40:38 GMT <gdeverlant> AFaust: Good news it seems that all Kotlin things are removed https://github.com/xenit-eu/dynamic-extensions-for-alfresco/issues/244#issuecomment-491688780
2019-05-13 11:40:39 GMT <alfbot> Title:How the internals is working by which class the plugin is started · Issue #244 · xenit-eu/dynamic-extensions-for-alfresco · GitHub (at github.com)
2019-05-13 11:42:39 GMT <gdeverlant> The plugin is now working like a charm in 6.1.2-ga version
2019-05-13 15:05:40 GMT <gdeverlant_> Wow I just checked Aikau DynamicUI generation
2019-05-13 15:05:46 GMT <gdeverlant_> and it sucks really bad!
2019-05-13 15:05:57 GMT <gdeverlant_> so many manual configuration of crap
2019-05-13 15:06:07 GMT <gdeverlant_> I would say that this is terrible design choice
2019-05-13 15:06:37 GMT <gdeverlant_> Holly Molly Wezus Captain Crap
2019-05-13 15:07:32 GMT <gdeverlant_> those architects and developers from Alfresco are lacking imagination and creativity
2019-05-13 15:08:03 GMT <gdeverlant_> they are going down the rabbit hole of how to make Alfresco developers life a misery
2019-05-13 15:08:42 GMT <gdeverlant_> They should have used the Portlet standard
2019-05-13 15:09:01 GMT <gdeverlant_> and try to minimize the overhead of configuration hell
2019-05-13 15:10:20 GMT <gdeverlant_> and they should build Eclipse Plugins instead of putting all the generators inside of Share interface
2019-05-13 15:11:03 GMT <gdeverlant_> they should hire me for the creative and imaginative part of designing methods for developers friendliness
2019-05-13 15:12:01 GMT <gdeverlant_> XML and JSON is the most abused of standards nowadays
2019-05-13 15:12:35 GMT <gdeverlant_> spring XML's and JSON faceted-search configs oh my god it is HELL
2019-05-13 15:14:31 GMT <gdeverlant_> and Alfresco should move all its core towards OSGi if they want to stay in the game of CMS's
2019-05-13 15:19:18 GMT <gdeverlant_> The main purpose of Aikau is to provide a library of widgets that can be easily assembled into a web application for accessing a repository. The aim is not to replace Share but it was necessary to migrate away from its original implementation
2019-05-13 15:20:12 GMT <gdeverlant_> how to plainly Politically Correct say that the initial architecture was not designed in a way to be upgraded
2019-05-13 15:23:47 GMT <gdeverlant_> Instead of creating a Aikau Visual Editor we run in a maze of config files
2019-05-13 15:29:48 GMT <gdeverlant_> this is becoming really insane
2019-05-13 15:29:48 GMT <gdeverlant_> https://github.com/Alfresco/Aikau/blob/master/tutorial/chapters/Tutorial3.md
2019-05-13 15:29:49 GMT <alfbot> Title:Aikau/Tutorial3.md at master · Alfresco/Aikau · GitHub (at github.com)
2019-05-13 15:30:33 GMT <gdeverlant_> If this was about UI stuff none of the manual things will have to be done
2019-05-13 15:30:44 GMT <gdeverlant_> only from the UI all of the above could be achieved
2019-05-13 15:31:22 GMT <gdeverlant_> UI stuffs should stay in UI and never pass down to manual boiler plate code
2019-05-13 15:31:28 GMT <gdeverlant_> all that should be automated
2019-05-13 15:32:03 GMT <gdeverlant_> Alfresco needs to create their own Alfresco Developer Studio like for Liferay
2019-05-13 15:33:59 GMT <gdeverlant_> Hopefully someone made the OSGi Dynamic Extension AMP
2019-05-13 17:11:56 GMT <gdeverlant_> AxelFaust: you there buddy?
2019-05-13 17:12:24 GMT <AxelFaust> I am now, yes. Back at the hotel (at a customer today / tomorrow)
2019-05-13 17:12:35 GMT <gdeverlant_> you read my messsages?
2019-05-13 17:12:42 GMT <gdeverlant_> is there an history on your IRC ?
2019-05-13 17:13:59 GMT <gdeverlant_> AFaust: Good news it seems that all Kotlin things are removed https://github.com/xenit-eu/dynamic-extensions-for-alfresco/issues/244#issuecomment-491688780
2019-05-13 17:14:00 GMT <alfbot> Title:How the internals is working by which class the plugin is started · Issue #244 · xenit-eu/dynamic-extensions-for-alfresco · GitHub (at github.com)
2019-05-13 17:14:25 GMT <gdeverlant_> I can now debug all of it freely without pauin
2019-05-13 17:16:33 GMT <gdeverlant_> I have a better understanding of the internals how it works
2019-05-13 17:17:44 GMT <gdeverlant_> I will make a prediction in which Magnolia team will probably take the work done for OSGi and Alfresco and implement their own Module based on DynamicExtension
2019-05-13 17:28:31 GMT <AxelFaust> gdeverlant_: I scanned over them (still in late evening conference call)
2019-05-13 17:31:18 GMT <AxelFaust> You know that AIkau is already dead, right? So no point really in learning it at this time.
2019-05-13 17:31:20 GMT <gdeverlant_> AxelFaust: I just installed the latest git pull which is version 2.0.0 SNAPSHOT
2019-05-13 17:31:42 GMT <gdeverlant_> inside of Alfresco 6.1.2-ga and it runs well
2019-05-13 17:31:53 GMT <gdeverlant_> ahhh I'm glad it is dead!
2019-05-13 17:32:03 GMT <gdeverlant_> it is an abomination this idea
2019-05-13 17:32:37 GMT <gdeverlant_> Aikau is maybe dead but all the project which are using it are still living
2019-05-13 17:32:42 GMT <AxelFaust> Also I think you were missing the original point of Aikau. It was never meant (by the developers) to build fully-fledged, custom UIs...
2019-05-13 17:33:14 GMT <AxelFaust> In Alfresco itself, only 2 or 3 pages actually use Aikau.
2019-05-13 17:33:26 GMT <angelborroy> * heating some pop corns… :)
2019-05-13 17:33:27 GMT <gdeverlant_> only the fact that it is so complicated configuring the simplest thing shows me that it was an horrible framework
2019-05-13 17:34:12 GMT <gdeverlant_> how many external clients of alfresco built their project with Aikau
2019-05-13 17:34:17 GMT <gdeverlant_> i'm sad for them
2019-05-13 17:36:20 GMT <AxelFaust> angelborroy: I'll have to disappoint you - I am not planning on providing you with a show where you have time to eat your popcorn...
2019-05-13 17:36:57 GMT <angelborroy> :D
2019-05-13 17:37:06 GMT <angelborroy> I didn’t know we have trolls in the Community
2019-05-13 17:37:11 GMT <angelborroy> This is a new amusement
2019-05-13 17:37:19 GMT <AxelFaust> I am also knowingly ignoreing the bit about Germans + XML from yesterday...
2019-05-13 17:38:36 GMT <AxelFaust> gdeverlant_: What comment I don't understand is the bit about Magnolia, Alfresco, OSGi and Dynamic Extensions.... there you lost me
2019-05-13 17:39:50 GMT <gdeverlant_> yeah my point was that Alfresco and their partner did marvelous job with DE
2019-05-13 17:40:14 GMT <AxelFaust> I mean, I'll have to take a look at Magnolia again after I was extremely disheartened / disappointed two years ago when I wanted to use it as the CMS for my company's homepage (still have no homepage apart from the minimum landing page).
2019-05-13 17:40:19 GMT <gdeverlant_> Magnolia will probably take the bits they need from DE and adapt it to fit their CMS
2019-05-13 17:40:32 GMT <AxelFaust> Most of the work was not even from that partner - they just took over maintenance of it.
2019-05-13 17:40:52 GMT <gdeverlant_> well the code is really good
2019-05-13 17:40:57 GMT <AxelFaust> Because they were using it in most of their projects, and the old developer / maintainer had moved on.
2019-05-13 17:41:31 GMT <gdeverlant_> I analysed step by step the core initialization
2019-05-13 17:41:41 GMT <angelborroy> (I don’t know Magnolia, but I know Liferay and I can say that the code is not really good)
2019-05-13 17:41:50 GMT <gdeverlant_> in Tomcat Debug mode and I can understand it very well
2019-05-13 17:41:58 GMT <gdeverlant_> now Liferay is 90% osgified
2019-05-13 17:42:16 GMT <angelborroy> And this is “good”, right
2019-05-13 17:42:26 GMT <gdeverlant_> development is much easier and the UI framework is not anymore YUI Yahoo lib
2019-05-13 17:42:48 GMT <angelborroy> Which UI Framework? Liferay have about a dozen UIs...
2019-05-13 17:42:49 GMT <gdeverlant_> it is based on React adapted framework called MetalJS
2019-05-13 17:45:51 GMT <gdeverlant_> http://metaljs.com/docs/tutorials/tutorial-todo-jsx/before-we-start.html
2019-05-13 17:45:52 GMT <alfbot> Title:Before We Start - Metal.js (at metaljs.com)
2019-05-13 17:46:03 GMT <gdeverlant_> Vaadin and MetalJS is the best right now
2019-05-13 17:47:04 GMT <angelborroy> I don’t see the point on comparing Alfresco and Liferay
2019-05-13 17:47:30 GMT <angelborroy> Anyway, Alfresco have also Angular and another UI frameworks used before
2019-05-13 17:47:52 GMT <gdeverlant_> Angular is like Spring Framework for the Client side which is an horrible choice
2019-05-13 17:48:10 GMT <angelborroy> ah, ok, it was that
2019-05-13 17:48:12 GMT <gdeverlant_> the ui has to be lightweight
2019-05-13 17:48:24 GMT <angelborroy> ok, I leave
2019-05-13 17:48:26 GMT <angelborroy> thanks
2019-05-13 17:48:29 GMT <gdeverlant_> lol
2019-05-13 17:49:08 GMT <gdeverlant_> Liferay is also a huge Monolith giant product which is now modularized
2019-05-13 17:49:28 GMT <gdeverlant_> all CMS if they want to survive the 10, 20 years future have to go towards OSGi
2019-05-13 17:49:32 GMT <gdeverlant_> there is no other choice
2019-05-13 17:50:11 GMT <gdeverlant_> because it will fail miserably if there is no modularization... by modularization I mean TRUE MODULARIZATION
2019-05-13 17:51:16 GMT * AxelFaust has to go find something to eat. Gone for the nearest China / Thai / Wok place...
2019-05-13 17:51:19 GMT <angelborroy> so you mean than Alfresco is a CMS, right?
2019-05-13 17:51:37 GMT <gdeverlant_> well they offer all CMS parts
2019-05-13 17:52:29 GMT <gdeverlant_> with their own features
2019-05-13 17:52:56 GMT <gdeverlant_> I use the CMS term to simplify my talk
2019-05-13 17:53:39 GMT <gdeverlant_> but who care if it is CMS or not ... my point is big projects If they want to survive they have to go OSGi
2019-05-13 17:54:12 GMT <angelborroy> Sadly the industry is using micro services and Cloud Architectures
2019-05-13 17:54:29 GMT <angelborroy> But (obviously) they are wrong, and the will fallback to OSGi eventually
2019-05-13 17:55:04 GMT <gdeverlant_> well Microservice is a term invented by OSGi
2019-05-13 17:55:26 GMT <gdeverlant_> other took it and redefined it because they saw a market share to steal
2019-05-13 17:55:27 GMT <angelborroy> ah, so Alfresco is in the right direction?
2019-05-13 17:55:42 GMT <angelborroy> I’m confused
2019-05-13 17:55:50 GMT <gdeverlant_> Microservice was to be inside of the same JVM
2019-05-13 17:56:01 GMT <gdeverlant_> like defined in OSGi Standard
2019-05-13 17:56:25 GMT <gdeverlant_> I don't know if Alfresco is in the right direction but the guys who created the DE project understood the future
2019-05-13 17:56:39 GMT <angelborroy> what???
2019-05-13 17:56:44 GMT <angelborroy> Microservice in the same JVM
2019-05-13 17:56:49 GMT <angelborroy> I want to hear that
2019-05-13 17:57:08 GMT <gdeverlant_> well learn OSGi and your life will become a breeze
2019-05-13 17:57:35 GMT <gdeverlant_> but OSGi is too hard for normal Java dudes
2019-05-13 17:58:13 GMT <gdeverlant_> if you never used it you will feel like trapped in a paradigm
2019-05-13 17:58:24 GMT <angelborroy> In English we say “regular”, not “normal”
2019-05-13 17:58:27 GMT <gdeverlant_> OSGi is microservices inside of the same JVM
2019-05-13 17:58:51 GMT <angelborroy> Amazing chat, but I have to leave
2019-05-13 17:59:01 GMT <angelborroy> Thanks for sharing your experience!
2019-05-13 17:59:07 GMT <gdeverlant_> thank you
2019-05-13 18:08:12 GMT <gdeverlant_> microservices outside of OSGi is illusive Microservices
2019-05-13 18:08:26 GMT <gdeverlant_> it is a bastardized term of microservices
2019-05-13 18:09:07 GMT <gdeverlant_> spring didn't want that OSGi becomes their competitor that's why they stopped supporting spring-DM
2019-05-13 18:09:33 GMT <gdeverlant_> and they created their version of microservices which is not real microservices
2019-05-13 18:09:53 GMT <gdeverlant_> they took the idea from OSGi and apply it to their monolith Spring Framework
2019-05-13 18:10:03 GMT <gdeverlant_> and brought the Spring Boot project
2019-05-13 18:12:21 GMT <gdeverlant_> I know this because my brain is connected to the Quantum Entanglement field
2019-05-13 20:47:48 GMT <gdeverlant_> AFaust: Which version of Alfresco are you working with ?
2019-05-13 20:48:54 GMT <AFaust> Anything from 4.2 to 6.1 at the moment, and even have a customer where I may have to work with 3.4 for a while (for a migration project)
2019-05-13 20:49:07 GMT <AFaust> migration/upgrade
2019-05-13 21:21:43 GMT <gdeverlant_> ok I just used the last version
2019-05-13 21:22:00 GMT <gdeverlant_> and started to learn it
2019-05-13 21:22:08 GMT <gdeverlant_> 1 week ago
2019-05-13 21:22:32 GMT <gdeverlant_> which parts of the frameworks are deprecated other than Aukai
2019-05-13 21:22:47 GMT <gdeverlant_> what should I not waste time on
2019-05-13 21:30:38 GMT <AxelFaust> anything in Java that has been marked as @Deprecated...
2019-05-13 21:30:53 GMT <AxelFaust> additionally, multi-tenancy..
2019-05-13 21:31:16 GMT <AxelFaust> and - though not official - the internal workflow engine / embedded Activiti
2019-05-13 21:35:28 GMT <gdeverlant_> alright
2019-05-13 21:55:29 GMT <gdeverlant_> I'm trying to create a universal documentation for Magnolia, Liferay, Alfresco, dotCMS
2019-05-13 21:55:53 GMT <gdeverlant_> and Adobe Experience Manager
2019-05-13 21:57:01 GMT <gdeverlant_> for people who wants to learn to work with all of those
The other logs are at http://esplins.org/hash_alfresco